Jivana Heyman 0:17
Hello, welcome to the Accessible Yoga Podcast. I'm Jivana. My pronouns are he and him, and I'm joining you from Santa Barbara, California, which is Chumash land. And I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for joining me. I have a very special guest today, Lucia Yess, who's a yoga studio owner from Minneapolis. Lucia shares about her experience through the recent surge, ICE surge, in Minneapolis that happened over the last few months and really tells such a beautiful story of a community that comes together in support and in service of each other and also the people that were being targeted by ICE. So I'm just really moved by her story, and grateful to her and the entire community of Minneapolis that came together during that time. I just think they showed us what it means to be human, and especially they showed us what it means to practice yoga. So, I'm excited to share this with you. As usual, I'd love to hear from you. If you have any ideas, comments, questions, you can leave them, you can leave me a voicemail, or you can leave me a comment, which I can share on a future podcast. All right. Thanks again. And here's my conversation with Lucia Yess.
Jivana Heyman 1:45
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Jivana Heyman 2:38
Okay, hi everyone. Lucia, thank you for being here. Maybe you could introduce yourself to our listeners.
Lucia Yess 2:45
Amazing, thank you for having me. So, I am a yoga teacher and yoga studio owner in Minneapolis. I went to the University of Minnesota, and my background is in social work in social justice, and when I graduated, the degree is considered family social science, and I went and lived in South Korea, and I actually did my teacher training there in 20...?
Jivana Heyman 3:17
In South Korea? (In South Korea.) Wow, that's awesome!
Lucia Yess 3:18
Yeah, it was really special. My first introduction to yoga, I was in seventh grade, I swam competitively, and my coach did, instead of doing dry land, we did yoga. So while other teams were doing weightlifting, I was falling in love with what, you know, unbeknownst to me, was going to be a lifeline for me. And when I graduated from college and went to South Korea, I had already been practicing now for a couple years and found myself in a community that happened to have a teacher training that really lined up with my schedule, my work schedule, and I found myself really aching for community and connection, and the people who live there. So I jumped in and it was incredible. It was such a great experience, and what I really started to notice was a lot of the experiences and beliefs I had around social justice were linked with my yoga training, and it was pretty profound to realize how this intersection of social work and social justice and yoga just really made sense for my body and what I wanted to do for work. That sometimes going through avenues of resource in social work were really similar to the avenues of resource through social justice networks, as is yoga. And I came back to Minneapolis, and was realizing I'm not seeing this like fully come into form, so I opened a yoga studio really on a whim.
Jivana Heyman 3:33
Wow!
Lucia Yess 3:43
It was kind of one of those like very Aries moments of like, you don't actually have that skill set! [laughs]
Jivana Heyman 5:11
And when was that? When did you open?
Lucia Yess 5:27
So I first started out of a Tai Chi studio, and that was probably in 20... Then I went to India, and then I opened it, so it's been open for 13 years.
Jivana Heyman 5:44
Wow, it's a long time. I used to own a studio too. I am here in Santa Barbara. It's a challenge, but I love the connection you're making with social justice, and that's great to hear that you actually studied it, because that's what got me into yoga. Well, I mean, I had practiced when I was younger, but I mean, I'm a gay man, and I came out during the AIDS epidemic, and so many of my friends were getting sick and dying, and that's what got me back to yoga, was to take care of myself. And then I realized I could share that with my community, so I started teaching yoga so I could share with people with HIV and AIDS, which is what I did in 1995. But really I was an activist, and I was looking at how that worked together, and every time I learned about yoga and yoga philosophy, I would try to connect it back to that activism, which I think is really what you're talking about too. It's really exciting. There are so many clear connections. I mean, yoga is really all about compassion and connection, so it makes sense. But I wanted to get right to one thing, I just want to ask you about... Well, did you do I say something? Sorry.
Lucia Yess 6:45
I just want to be like, I love that you shared that!
Jivana Heyman 6:49
Thanks. I mean, I wrote about a lot. I even wrote a book basically about social justice and yoga, which you might enjoy, called Yoga Revolution. So maybe I could send you a copy,
Lucia Yess 6:59
I would love it. I will buy a copy!
Jivana Heyman 7:01
Okay, I know we hadn't met, so that's why I thought I'd share a bit of my story. But it's nice to connect with you. And basically, what I heard about you is the work you did during, you know, what was going on in Minneapolis with ICE, and what was happening to people in our communities, and I just was really touched by your story. I actually had, I think, you and I had connected a few times, a few different ways, and I think I had just heard about your studio, just even in the news. So, it was, yeah, it must have been a lot. Like, it must have been kind of overwhelming. Maybe you could just tell us about what happened.
Lucia Yess 7:37
Yeah, it was a Saturday, and for most yoga studios, that is one of the more popular days, and it was in the morning, where our most visited class is. It happened during the earliest session, the 8:30 class, and we have on recording Vanessa, who's just a fabulous teacher, during shavasana say, "Oh no, oh no, oh no. Something bad must have happened." And it just... it doesn't ever get lost on me, just how scared she must have felt, leading this very embodied hour, and then ending with siren after siren after siren, and gunshots, and screaming, and just trying to figure out, like, how can we come from this experience and go back out into the world, right? And I think that is what's so interesting about people who live this way, that we come to our practice so that we can go back into the world, and it was just what I think both of us really gravitate to, is it is about action. Like, yoga is about action, and it's not the action of postures, but the action of being in your body enough that you can go back into the world, and here is like this prime example of how this community had to do it. For reference, Alex Pretti was murdered a block from our studio, like from door to death, and so everything was heard, you know? It wasn't like miles away or anything. Yeah, and then the 10 o'clock class, those folks were coming, because, again, not everyone's hearing or knowing the news, right? Thankfully, people like wake up and have coffee, and maybe look at a loved one, and then go on to their day without, like, being bombarded with news. So people kept showing up in droves. The teacher is showing up, and I'm out of town that weekend, I get a phone call from one of the yoga teachers, Claire, who, we met, actually, in college, and we've been organizing - she's a public health major - we've been organizing since we were 19 together. And she texts - she's a street medic as well - and she said it's not looking good. Someone was shot by the studio. I'm gonna go in now, and I know you're out of town, but I'll keep you posted. And my husband works at the local county hospital, and our neighbor across the street is an ER doctor, and David, my husband, was actually working in the hospital that day. So I contacted both of them and just said, can you give me a heads up what's going on? And our neighbor said it's not looking good, I think you should cancel classes.
Lucia Yess 10:48
And it, from there, just went into all the practice of regulating and making decisions under a traumatic experience when it came in, like you know when you're making a decision, but your body is tremoring, like just from the core of shaking, of like not only are some of my most important people at a place that's supposed to be for healing, they're at the front line of an attack by our federal government, and I am not there to keep them safe, but I absolutely want that space to be a refuge. And our teachers are exceptional, and a lot of them are public health majors, and a lot of them are activists in social justice avenues, that's kind of our, like, not criteria, but it tends to be the genre of consumers that come to Yess. So our studio manager went in, and she's been doing activism since the 70s-80s, and the teacher, Victoria, was there. Claire was there, and people were coming in with droves. Claire was flushing out eyes, because, again, she's a street medic and trained. Elizabeth was containing, making sure the door is shut. Victoria and the acupuncturist, Ray, were there, and, like, holding space upstairs and gathering people, and it became a place where everyone, who were coming for class, and then the reason why people stayed is there was an entire wall of agents, ICE agents blocking our studio entrance, and we are on two one-ways, so no one could leave, and they were tear gassing, even though it was already post the time where they were saying they aren't tear gassing and shouldn't be tear gassing. People came in with rubber bullets being shot with, you know. I have videos of people getting hit. I've been asked on numerous occasions by lawyers, do you have any video evidence of my client getting hit that we've had to, like, find. It's just the single day was so alarming, and the ongoing reminder, like, most places where trauma has happened, you know, you just can't fully divest from it. So our response has to be really about embracing what happened and healing as a community, because we don't get to look away, and we, in fact, don't really want to, if we want to walk through this and make a better collective experience. So you know, part of me is like, oh, I don't want to do this right, because it's like, painful to watch your neighbors literally get murdered by your government. And, the other parts, like I think we were incredibly positioned to do it, and well, and embodied.
Jivana Heyman 14:14
Thank you for saying that. Really, I mean it's an incredible story, and you're what you've done is amazing. But when you say I don't want to do this. I'm just curious, what you're talking about, which piece like the ongoing support that you've offered to community, that part, like what is it that...?
Lucia Yess 14:28
I just don't want... I don't want to do.... I think we're so smart as human beings, and it feels so frustrating to me that we continue to repeat systems of oppression. Like, I don't want to do it anymore, as a person. It's like, don't we know that hurting other people hurts us? (Right.) Like, what part of that have we not learned in history yet? And I think that's what I love about yoga, right. It's like so basic, but we're still, like, actively not doing it. And I feel like I've heard so many beautiful leaders in our community and around the world say, like, until more people will join in and recognize the human suffering will continue until we band together as a collective, it just becomes more palatable when it's literally on your block, right? Of just like, yeah, that's what's happening, is we have to band together, and that part I'm so here for. I just wish we didn't have to see pain to band together, because we historically know that we don't have to oppress each other to get ahead and to feel abundant and to have love and safety, which are core principles of yoga lifestyle, right?
Jivana Heyman 16:00
Yeah, it is incredibly frustrating to me that you know so many people that practice yoga don't seem to understand the philosophy and the implications that, like you're saying, of yoga philosophy, which is that we have to share that kindness. It's not just love for ourselves, but it's actually love for others, that's at the heart of the yoga teachings. And I do think that, unfortunately, well, two things: one is that our egos are very big and confusing, and so we tend to, you know, through capitalism, we're taught that we have to just look out for ourselves always, and that, unfortunately, the fullness of yoga is not really being taught, because I look around the world and there's millions of people practicing yoga, but it doesn't seem like the revolutionary ideas are necessarily getting to everyone. So what I focus on in terms of my training teachers and talking to teachers is just that we need to do a better job of teaching the fullness of yoga and really making sure that we're practicing it ourselves rather than just focus on one little part, right?
Lucia Yess 17:01
Yeah, yep. And I think a big part of that, what, especially the onus of teaching others to teach, I think a big part of that is figuring out, and this is what I think Minneapolis did so well during Metro surges, find your place in it. Because how you and I want to show up might be podcasts and owning a yoga studio, but how other people want to show up with the lifestyle of yoga being at the heart of it might be very different ways, and that's okay. And that's what I think made this work so well and so hard for ICE agents to figure out where to go next was because a huge portion of people who were actively involved picked a lane that they felt they could sustainably do and then did it, like actually took action daily, because it was a daily offense to our system.
Jivana Heyman 18:09
That's what I'm wondering, is what happened then? I know that your studio really stepped up, not just that day but ongoing. Can you talk about that?
Lucia Yess 18:19
Yeah, so I'm a parent to two kids, and we had actually been doing work prior to even Renee Good being murdered, which was weeks before Alex Pretti, because kids weren't coming to the school and the families weren't going to work, so there was a network of parents who were driving kids and picking up groceries and dropping off food and dropping off books and getting getting kids set up and families set up before the holidays. Red Cross was asked by a local clinic for blood pressure cuffs because families weren't coming for their preventative visits, or their well child visits, or specifically this was for high-risk pregnancy, and this clinic needed to get blood pressure cuffs for people expecting who had preeclampsia, and Red Cross was like, absolutely, let's fill out these forms, and the clinic was like, "We need them tomorrow." So, Claire was like, "Can we, can we move this?" And I was like, absolutely! And so we started in early January mutual aid for clinics, local clinics, and it became something where we were able to raise money for blood pressure cuffs, diapers, wipes, formula, house goods.
Jivana Heyman 19:47
You were raising money, and you were physically moving items for them? Is that what you're saying? The studio itself wasn't housing those, were you? I mean, you were also housing the activities, so like using it as a clinic, but also then providing support for other clinics. Is that what you were saying?
Lucia Yess 20:05
Yeah. So we were like members would come with like truckloads of diapers, we participated in all of the strikes, and so we had days where we had free classes, but oftentimes people would be like, "Here's formula for a class." I was like, great, amazing! So, yeah, we like have.,. we still even have it. We have, like, essentially a little bodega in the back of the studio that we just have supplies on hand. One time a neighbor came by and was like, I heard that you have diapers, and my daughter really could use some. And I was like, "Come shop! Come pick what you need, what's your favorite kind?" So that's really... we had started doing that work, you know, late December, early January. And then the specific day of Alex Pretti's murder, you know, we also opened up. I mean, we were open, we closed for classes, but maintained a place of refuge for both our neighbors who are just stepping out and like, why, what is happening, and then being shuffled into the studio because of tear gas, and then people who are coming for classes.
Jivana Heyman 21:25
I mean, I love that image, like what you did. I mean, yoga studio as refuge feels like the perfect analogy for what they should all be. You know, all spiritual places, you know, should be like that, right? A refuge for everyone to be safe, like a sanctuary, it seems like that's what you were providing, so that's incredible. And then it seems like ongoing you're doing that too, so not only providing mutual aid, but what else was going on? Because I imagine there had to be more issues, like you talked about the stress and all that. So you offered free classes, it sounds like on those strike days. How else did you apply the yoga, I guess? I'm curious, like, if there's other ways.
Lucia Yess 22:04
Yeah, and then just in the studio itself we moved to a sliding scale. (Right, okay.) So it became really obvious for us that folks who had money to come to yoga, they were spending it on mutual aid, so they were spending it on rent relief, they were spending it on food for their neighbors, they were spending it on PPE for going out to the Whipple building, right. Like, people were spending what they would have on a yoga class for protecting our neighbors and ourselves, and so we realized, well, that's that's not great if people who are caring for others aren't taking care of themselves, and so we moved to a sliding scale basis. Now, of course, members came and still paid for memberships, and of course people still paid full price, and it was really important for us, and we still have this sliding scale drop-in that people can come at a name your price. And we have a sign right when you come in that said, "Ask us about a sliding scale drop-in." So that people don't have to feel weird about it, all the teachers know about it. It's advertised on our social media. It's not trying to be gate kept, or only if you are in this bracket and you have to show us your tax forms. It's just like, if you can come for $5, come for $5.
Jivana Heyman 23:40
Yeah, I love that. Can I just, can we repeat that again? Because, I feel so frustrated that, like, a lot of financial models that look like they're supportive are really still not accessible because people have to take the extra step or do fill out a long application for a scholarship or something. And so I just find that, yeah, that's really frustrating, so that's awesome that you had that awareness.
Lucia Yess 24:05
Well, just any barrier to prove that you are worthy makes someone feel ashamed, and there's no reason for that. And even prior to ICE being in Minneapolis, we have 20% of our memberships on a sliding scale. We have different tiers, so, and that again is on our website, right on our class page. So it's just a practice that we've had for years. And you know, I think it's one thing to say, like, sure, name your price, or things of that nature. I think it's another piece where, how can we make it as easy as possible for someone to say, this is what I can pay?
Jivana Heyman 24:53
And can I ask? You don't have to answer this necessarily, but I'm just curious, how that works out for you as a studio owner? Like, have you found it works out okay? Because I think that's the fear of a lot of people who are in the position of responsibility, like, you have to pay rent. Do you know what I mean? Like you have to pay the bills, so, yeah, I'm just curious about that.
Lucia Yess 25:13
So what we've found is 20% of our memberships are on a sliding scale, and in that we have some tiers. So a $20 a month, we have a couple at of $20 a month, all the way up to $80, and then $90 and $108 are our regular prices. We don't ask people to show us like student ID, or...
Jivana Heyman 25:38
And that's like a monthly membership for all classes, like to access everything?
Lucia Yess 25:42
Yep. Which means, we have like 1000s of pre-recorded classes, we have virtual, and we have in person. So accessibility to us looks like, yes, you can come to the studio, but accessibility also means to us, I can come for 45 minutes, but not the full hour, so I'm going to join you live and pop off 15 minutes early. Or I can come, but not at the times that you have set, so I'm going to take my pre-recorded class of the class I normally would go to, right. So that's another way that we want to be accessible, is time, and amount of time that people have designated. Not everyone has an hour a day that they can do yoga, but they might have 20 minutes, and so if they can come for 20 minutes on a recorded class or a live class at home or at their work, great. So, yeah, so we have $90 and $108 are our normal set prices, and then 20% of our memberships can go all the way down to $20 a month, and I think the reality is, and this is what I think was really evident in Metro Surge, like the heightened part, is people want to see their communities succeed. (Yeah.) And people want places like these studios to survive. So we have so many... we don't - we're not even full at that 20% right now, like we still have openings for that, because I think people genuinely want Yess Yoga to be in their community, and I don't come from a place of lack. I come from a place of abundance. I feel abundant. I feel like we have enough to share and give, and I think people, we attract that energy, then, which is other people feeling like I want to be in a place that is willing to give, and this is my full price that I can give, whether it is the $108 or $60 or $30, but I think we all come in with that same concept, which is like, we are living in abundance together. And $30, that feels great! And so does $70, and so does $50, and so does $108 right? So I think that's what I would encourage other folks who are running a studio, and at the end of the day are the person who has to pay rent and pay utilities, is pick a percentage you are willing to explore for financial accessibility, and instead of giving those spots to, like, a ClassPass or Groupon, give them to actual people.
Jivana Heyman 26:06
Yeah, that's awesome. Also, I just want to mention, in case we do have some international listeners too, who may not really understand the impact of what was going on there, and it just seemed like, I don't know how long it was, but, like, there was months there that you call it the Metro Surge, where it was like you basically were invaded by ICE, like your city was completely taken over, and obviously horrible things happened. But I just want to say that out loud, because, I don't know if people, they don't always follow the news in the US. For good reason, maybe. And I guess I'm just.. my other question for you is just like, the impact it's had on your community now? Like, I just.. I imagine that there's been a shift. Have you noticed that? Like, even though that surge is over, I mean, you talk about the community wants you to be there. I imagine that kind of like service that you provided has impacted the way, the role of the studio in the community, and the way that it's being perceived by the membership, like by the people, well, your neighbors, and also the students, and your teachers.
Lucia Yess 29:38
Yeah, I think people in general want again to be associated with things that feel aligned, and what we were able to do, and have done, we did similar things during George Floyd's murder. Actually, the month prior to George Floyd being murdered, we started a free BIPOC class, and I guess, for us the vision is always, how do we have a third space that is about liberation, compassion, connection? And we are able through these hardships and through these incredibly challenging collective experiences to reaffirm what we are doing and why we started in the first place and I think that goes back to the initial questions like, tell us about who you are? It's like at the heart of why Yess Yoga opened is when I came back from South Korea, and I came back from India. I just didn't see yoga spaces that were predominantly speaking about liberation for people. And to be in the world, wanting wellness for all, and to live in a world where people feel well, we have to then say that out loud, right? Like, I want to live in a world where people feel safe and well, I want to live in a world where people feel like they can come to this place when they aren't feeling safe and well and restore and rest and feel strong and have connections that want them, but during that time it was just us being able to really actively out loud live what we've always lived, which is, we want to live in a world where people are well. We know that our safety and our health and our abundance is only and for always tied to that of others, and that's what yoga is for us. And I think, it is growing. I like, I actually think it is expanding because of people like you. I think it's expanded because people who teach at Yess are doing it out loud, and I think we're doing it in a way that's peaceful. What also really, really works for Minneapolis is we were peaceful. Like, what are they gonna get us on? The fact that we opened our doors, that we drove kids to school, that we fed our neighbors, right? Like, that we marched and sang songs that were like, "You can change your mind, it's okay to change your mind." Like, what are they gonna get us on? We were peaceful, we were thoughtful, we were connected. So I feel like it's the time for the practice to be lived in a more proud, confident, thoughtful, loving, kind way, and not to feel like it has to only be quiet, you know, like, it's, it's okay to say I want liberation and peace and well-being for all.
Jivana Heyman 33:05
Yeah. Well, I love that. Thank you for sharing that and saying it so beautifully. And, and you're doing such an amazing job. I think, yeah, you're a great example of that. And I would say, not only saying it quietly, but I feel like what is happening to, from what I see in the yoga world, is that people think that they're only having to say it for themselves, that yoga is a completely internal experience. And while there is that side of yoga as an internal practice, you're completely right that it's about how it then impacts where you are in the world. So, I mean, yoga is about changing us inside, so that our actions represent that, right? I mean, the actions automatically will represent that. If you shift your understanding, you feel compassionate and loving towards people, you can't help but care for them, especially when you see them suffering, which is what I think you've done so beautifully. And really, it's incredibly touching to me. So, I'm very grateful for what you're doing, and, I want to say, like, in the midst of an emergency, I think it's especially... like the way you described in the beginning, like the stress of that emergency. Like, I've been in moments like that in my life, and it's very clear to me that in those moments people kind of show their true colors. I think that, like, the truth kind of is revealed under pressure, and it just seems incredible what you and your community did, the way you all stepped up, and I think we all felt that. I mean, I felt that. I live in California, and I could feel that reaction. It was so inspiring, I have to say. I mean, it was really.. I felt bad, you know, that you all were suffering, but at the same time, like, I have to say, the reaction of that community, and the way you all stepped up was just incredible. I mean, really, like the most beautiful thing I've seen. In fact, I saw that the community was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, right? I mean, that makes sense to me. Yeah, and I think you're a huge part of that. You and your studio, and all the members there, and the teachers, it seems to me, are a big part of that response. You really showed, showed all of us, what yoga actually is, you know, which is skill in action, right? It's skill in action. So, thank you for that. And then one last thing, I mean, I always, the theme of this season of the podcast is self-care and service, which really goes along with this conversation I think that we're having, but I want to just ask you about your self-care, because it seems to me like, especially in the middle of that, I'm curious, how you handled it. How did you care for yourself as that was unraveling, you know? And, like, or did you not? Like, I mean, you know, maybe there's times in our lives where you can't, like, you're in the middle of a chaotic emergency situation and you just survive like that. That's okay, but I'm just wondering if you have thoughts about that?
Lucia Yess 35:43
I do. I have so many thoughts. I think we align on this, which is yoga should not be a privilege, right? And I feel really lucky to live in a place and to be connected to Yess Yoga and the teachers there and I did a lot of my tending to my own needs at the studio itself. So self care for me, just directly, is yoga. It's yin and quiet and reflective, it's feeling where tension is living in my body, it is Reiki. So, Yess also has a wellness wing that we have folks, I mentioned Ray, who does acupuncture, and Lynn does Reiki, Marissa does massage. We have some psychotherapists that are there that are incredible, and so I feel really lucky that I'm just around a lot of diversity when I think about wellness. But I personally need a lot of, like, energy work, because it was a really energetic experience. Of course, it's visual and very physical, but it was really energetic to be around both so much love and care from your neighbors, and so much aggression and violence from a government-funded system. And so those were things that I did, so I did a lot of slow yin meditation movement and also vinyasa, which helps to kind of shake it out a little, and then a lot of Reiki and energy work.
Jivana Heyman 37:33
Yeah, frontline activism is exhausting and painful, and I mean I spent many years doing that early, you know, in the late 80s, mostly 90s, like I mentioned, around AIDS, with a group called ACT UP, and you know, when you're facing aggressive police and being arrested, you know, I was arrested many, many times, and they're literally touching you, and then, you know, spending time in prison, like it just.. I have a little PTSD about it, personally. Like, I just can't, you know, it's so traumatic, and I know people who, like, live in those situations, I just can't quite imagine that, under those, you know, situations, people who are still in detainment from ICE currently, or anyone who's incarcerated. I just... anyway, I just want to say. I didn't mean to go there, but I just.. you know, I feel it in my body. It's such an intense experience to put your body on the line and to be physically in the midst of that kind of violence and chaos and aggression, especially from the government and the people who are supposed to be, quote, protecting you, and they're actually the aggressor. It's difficult to get your head around it and your nervous system, so it's amazing that you had yoga in that way. I mean, that's definitely, like I said, that's what got me back into yoga. I learned yoga as a child, but I went back to my practice because of that. Like, I needed it so desperately, and I feel grateful that I was able to find it again for myself, but offering that to activists and anyone who's doing that work is just so incredible, and for yourself, I'm sure.
Lucia Yess 39:12
Yeah, and that's like a huge portion of our already existing members, and people who you know come in are people who are caring for our collective wellbeing. So nurses and parents and teachers and folks who organize and therapists, right, like we tend to be a community of folks who are tapped in to our wellbeing and that the well-being, again, is always going to be enhanced when we have care for ourselves. And I think that's such a motivating season that you are pursuing, which is if we want to live in a different world, which I think your listeners do, then we have to make sure that we are living in our world that is pursuing the world we want to live in. And I think what Minneapolis did incredibly well was demonstrate what world we want and we met force with the world we want to live in. And I really appreciate, and I know every single person in Minneapolis really appreciates the words that you mentioned earlier, which is like I was in awe, I was inspired, I was so proud, I was invested in you all. Like, that means so much to us and I would say, if you have a loved one who lives in Minnesota, please reach out to them and tell them that, because those are the pieces that help us heal, that you believed our stories, you listened to our experiences, you stood by us in solidarity. You're learning from this, what we did, so that when and if it happens in your neighborhoods, that you can use those tools. And I think in the interim we have to take care of ourselves, in an environment where others are involved, because I think that's a distinctly special part about group classes, is there is a self tending to, while co-regulating with others. And so when you're in the street with strangers, i.e. neighbors, all whistling and looking at someone who you're like, stop doing that, you trust your neighbors, right? And I think that's what's so unique about group yoga classes is, here I am tending, grounding, breathing, feeling, noticing, while also in the company of someone I don't know, and still feeling safe. And I think when our care can have that quality of my neighbors are who I'm most safe with, whether I know their names or not, we're gonna, as a people, do so much better because our government wants us to believe that our neighbors are actually scary. (Yeah.) And those are the people we should be worried about, they're the ones who are breaking into our garages. And it's like, no, no, those are the people who stood by me. You shot someone in the back, while they're helping a lady out of a street. Like, that's the person I trust.
Jivana Heyman 42:47
Yeah, this is also why I say that, you know, I always say that yoga teachers are leaders, or basically community leaders. Like, that's what we're learning how to do as yoga teachers, we're learning how to basically hold the nervous system for our class, like we are able to be that strong, you know, solid place, the rock in the midst of that, whatever is going on in your yoga class, and I think that's very much what community activism is, or you know, or direct action, even can be in those moments, like when you're marching, like you said, or demonstrating, or facing off with the police. Just be able to stay strong and be that for the people around you, and I feel it. I mean, we've had... I live in a small town here in Santa Barbara, but our response has been incredible. Like, we've had huge marches compared to the population, you know, we're looking over 10% of our entire population that marches every time there is one, which is pretty incredible in a small town like this.
Lucia Yess 43:42
How good!
Jivana Heyman 43:43
It's an amazing feeling. I love that connection you made, and I totally agree. Like, between being in a yoga class and being at a march or a protest is a very similar feeling of co-regulation with like-minded people who really are wanting the best for the world and for others. And trying to live yoga, and like you said, to not just find peace for ourselves, but actually create the world, like you said, create the world that we want to see. And I want to say, even, I would take it one step further, and say that really all revolutions that have happened that I know of, in my limited understanding of history, have been connected to this idea, actually, that true revolutions that change the course of history really come from that kind of shift in collective thinking around not only compassion and really nonviolent activism that comes out of spiritual teachings. I mean, that's why I just feel like the conversation around social justice and yoga is so important because it is central to political change. And I feel like the fact that people get... I still get comments. I got one a week ago on a post on Facebook about this. Someone told me to stop being political, and it's just like, the misunderstanding that we have in the yoga world about the connection between political change and spirituality is so disturbing to me, because it literally is the same, like you can't have true political change, and I don't mean political like different presidents or something, but I mean like actual shifts in consciousness only happen through spirituality, and especially this kind, you know.
Lucia Yess 45:25
I fully agree, and I think when those comments come up, when someone is saying, you know, yoga shouldn't be political, I guess my only response is, but everything is! Because we live in a capitalist society, and everything we are speaking into is funded by our dollars, and so because you are funding this, because I am funding ICE, I get to have a political say on it, because it's my tax dollars, and I am a proud taxpayer. I want to have health care for all. I want to have free education. I want to have roads that are safe to drive on and bridges I can cross without wondering. I want to have clean water. I want to have national parks, and so, because I fund it and you fund it, we get to have a say on that. Again, this is why I think Minneapolis worked. We had a say in a way that was kind, considerate, thoughtful, direct, collective, and I think funny, beautiful, intimate. Like, I think that's okay for people to feel uncomfortable because it maybe deviates from what they thought their political candidates were voting for. And, yoga is not about our comfort, it is about truth and liberation, and so just like you get in a posture that's uncomfortable, you get to have also the choice to say, "Hey, if I want to get stronger, if I want to understand this pose, if I want to move through this, I have to kind of sit in some parts that are really yucky." And that's kind of what I said earlier, like I don't want to do this, I don't want to fight the federal government, I would love for us not to oppress our own people. I'm really kind of over it, but I'll do it if that's what's happening. So, it's the same thing. It's like, I don't - none of us want to do these things. I would much rather all the dollars go to the things that I think are helpful for our society, but we're not there yet. And so, I want to stay grounded enough, so that you and I can have a conversation about, hey, in your body, when you saw Alex Pretti get shot, when you saw Renee Good look out her window and say, "I'm not mad at you, man." And then know she got shot twice in her head. How did that make your body feel? And then let's move that, take action with that.
Jivana Heyman 48:04
Yeah, let's move that, and also, like, but, like, just going back to what you're saying about saying yoga is not politics is also spiritual bypassing, because basically it's saying that I just want the good. I just want to feel good, like you said, I don't want to have any negative or painful feelings. Like you said, that's part of spiritual practice, is learning how to integrate all of that, and, and also to look at reality, and not just pretend it's not happening, and also I think it's just privilege. It's basically, it's a privileged position to say it's not political, it's really that's all it is. It's just because you don't want to think about it, you don't want to be disturbed, but that's not real yoga, that's like, you know, playing pretend, basically.
Lucia Yess 48:48
Well, the question is, are you coming to a class to escape your reality, or are you coming to the class to change, to move out of those grooves and patterns and samskaras, so that we can live in a more just world? For me, that's my preference. I don't want to escape, I want it to come into fruition, and to do that means some heavy lifting.
Jivana Heyman 49:16
Yeah, that's beautifully said. That's like a mic drop moment right there. I think you just wrapped it up really well. I could talk to you forever. (Yay! I was like - we did it!) So, anything else you want to share? I feel like you just said it. You really wrapped it up so beautifully. Thanks again. Thanks for what you do, and for talking with me. I really appreciate it.
Lucia Yess 49:36
I really appreciate you caring, and again, I will always say this, that when someone is in a moment of trauma or crisis, to reach out to them. I think that's like a huge takeaway for me, which is don't make the assumption that someone knows you're thinking of them, just message them. It is so easy to do that right now. And actually put in that effort to say, like, I'm thinking of you, or how are you, or this must be so challenging, and that could be someone who just, you know, received news from their lab reports that's not what they want, and this could be something collective, but I would say that would be a takeaway is, if you don't know how to show up when something's traumatic, it is you, your heart in your body. How are you feeling? And connect with them, because it, it means so much to people to know that others think about them, and that's really what yoga is about, right? Is unity and connection. So, if you are thinking of someone, message them, because that's what yoga is - it's connection, even when it's hard, even when you know their answer is gonna be like, "In a stink, so bad, I hate this!" And the answer is yes. Let's do this heavy lifting and make sure that someone doesn't have the onus all on themself.
Jivana Heyman 51:02
Okay. Thanks for that. Thanks again.
Lucia Yess 51:04
Thank you. I'm so happy we got to connect.
Jivana Heyman 51:07
All right. Thank you.
Jivana Heyman 51:19
I really want to thank OfferingTree for sponsoring this podcast. Thank you OfferingTree! I know running a yoga business means juggling scheduling, payments, marketing, and more, and OfferingTree really gets it. They built an all-in-one platform specifically for yoga professionals, handling all the things: the scheduling, the payments, the marketing, and even your website, and what I love is they're not just a software company, they're a community supporting you every step of the way. And my listeners get 50% off your first three months or 15% off an entire year at offeringtree.com/accessibleyoga. Again, that's offeringtree.com/accessibleyoga, you can find that link in our show notes as well. Thanks again, OfferingTree.
Jivana Heyman 52:15
Okay, welcome back. Hi, Deanna.
Deanna Michalopoulos 52:18
Hello, Jivana. How are you?
Jivana Heyman 52:21
I'm good, actually, really good. How about you?
Deanna Michalopoulos 52:24
I too am good. We're in this, like, fake out spring here in Berlin, so you know, 75 one week, and then 40 the next.
Jivana Heyman 52:35
I just got back from Australia, as you know, but it was fall there, which is weird, because it's spring here, so I was just like confused about the seasons and weather, but still it was so nice to be there, and the weather was awesome. The plants there were amazing, and the people, but I love the plant life and the animals. Yeah, it was fun.
Deanna Michalopoulos 53:00
It sounded like you had amazing trainings there.
Jivana Heyman 53:03
Yes, and I just want to thank everyone who came and hung out with me in Australia. So, thanks everyone. All right, how about this incredible episode, though? Wow, I'm so excited about this, and to share it with the world. I was just so touched by Lucia and what she shared, and the work that her and her community are doing just to support everyone during that, well, what's continuing to be this horrible crackdown by ICE in Minneapolis.
Deanna Michalopoulos 53:30
This was such an incredible episode. I'm so grateful that you were able to host Lucia here, and it's one of those things where we talk about service a lot, and it's very abstract in concept. It's like, oh, yes, you know, I will rise when necessary, and then that, when necessary, is doing a lot of work. Because, what is that moment? And, you know, we're finding ourselves in a lot of those moments. It's very real for many folks, not even in just the United States, but around the world, this has been going on a long time. And so I'm wondering if you want to talk about that a little bit?
Jivana Heyman 54:08
Yeah, I mean, I'd love to. I think she spoke about it beautifully, and her explanation was really great, the way she just talked about how the community naturally rallied around each other, that it felt very instinctual, and I think that's the piece that is a little bit lost, maybe in the teachings. I think sometimes we think of service as like consciously choosing to do some kind of activism or volunteer work or something, but I think, you know, my understanding of service in the yoga tradition, it's really the natural outcome of your practice, that the more you connect with yourself and especially with your heart and love, that service is literally just the actions that flow from love and care, you know, caring for people in a loving way. And I think so many people do that naturally. Like, as we just heard, so many of them just naturally did that. Feeding each other, you know, doing first aid for each other. I think it's just a natural human instinct that maybe can be suppressed through capitalism and separation and individuality, and then the focus on that, and I think what the yoga teachings are saying, you know, are more about connecting with that more universal place that's in us, you know, that spiritual place in us that is also in others, and I think that's why there's such a focus on service in the yoga teachings, like in the Bhagavad Gita, that's literally the main teaching of the Gita, is to act, you know, to act in service of others, and yeah, what do you think of that?
Deanna Michalopoulos 55:51
Yeah, that's such a beautiful way to put it, because you know, when you think about, quote unquote, rising up, it's like these actions can be quite ordinary, but they're very powerful, right. Like, if you're dropping off groceries to somebody's home because they can't leave their home for a variety of reasons, right, helping drop kids off at school. It's like a neighborly thing, like the word neighborly keeps coming up, like something you would do for your community just simply because it was needed, and so I was really struck when she was talking about that. And it really was a community effort.
Jivana Heyman 56:24
It really was. I mean, it's remarkable. I'm just kind of blown away by them, honestly. Like, I just was really touched by her sharing and what they've done. And I know it was just doesn't just her studio. I know a few other people in that area and the whole city came together. The yoga community really did come together and supported each other, as she shared. I guess I just wanted to give that kind of perspective from yoga philosophy. I mean, again, we talked a lot about service and the teachings, but I'm not sure it's directly connected to self-realization, and the process of opening and learning about yourself. Do you know what I'm saying? I think it's kind of seen as like a duty, and that's nice, I guess, but the duty lies in the fact that it just flows naturally from this kind of a different perspective on the world that's not so egocentric, that it's more, it's a perspective that you know comes from seeing yourself in others. And like I mentioned earlier, like I think a lot of people do that naturally. I think about, you know, a lot of the service professions, people who are in healthcare and care for people, or you know, just so many people who clean houses or work in restaurants and feed people or take care of children, like educators and teachers of all kind. I think there's a natural tendency that people have, like some people just do it, they're naturally karma yogis. Some of us have to work on it more, and it's beneficial to us in that it connects us to that place, right, that more universal place. I was thinking about in the Gita... I mean, the Gita can be problematic, and I get that some people struggle with it for many reasons. Caste is an issue in the Gita, and also it's a story about war, but it's still one of the main sources we have for yoga philosophy, and there's such a focus on service there, in a few ways. I mean, one of the definitions that the Gita gives, one of the definitions of yoga is, "Yoga is skill in action," which speaks to this quality of service, and also there's a section I like to reflect on. Maybe I could read it, it's in chapter three of the Gita, which is literally the chapter on service on karma yoga, Krishna says - this is Sloka 25 -, "The ignorant work for their own profit, Arjuna, the wise work for the welfare of the world without thought for themselves," which I think is a really beautiful and powerful statement. I mean, maybe overwhelming a little bit, but I just love... I'm sure we read that before, because I was talking about all the W's in that sentence. "The ignorant work for their own profit, the wise work for the welfare of the world." I think that is so beautiful. And earlier, like in Chapter Two, you know, Krishna is basically telling Arjuna to stand up and fight, and he's basically telling him, this is another famous section - this is Chapter Two, Sloka 47 - he says, "You have the right to work, but never to the fruit of work. You should never engage in action for the sake of reward, nor should you long for inaction. Perform work in this world as a man established within himself without selfish attachments and alike in success and defeat, for yoga is perfect evenness of mind." That's where then he goes on and talks about skill and action, and actually, by the way, the end of that part, "Yoga is perfect evenness of mind, or yoga is equanimity of mind." That's another definition of yoga in the Gita. Anyway, I just wanted to give a little context. I don't know if that was helpful.
Deanna Michalopoulos 1:00:07
Yeah, I appreciate that, the context, the philosophical context. Lucia was talking about that a little bit too, about how, you know, yoga is action, and it's not just about the postures, you know, it's about the action. Yoga is action, so that really stuck with me.
Jivana Heyman 1:00:23
Yeah, anyway, I was just really touched by that. I'm touched by all the ways that people are stepping up to support those impacted by ICE and all the other ways that people are being oppressed right now in this country, but it's just really beautiful to see what the people of Minneapolis have done, and as I mentioned to her, I just think it's awesome that they were nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. I hope they win.
Deanna Michalopoulos 1:00:48
Can you talk about that for a minute? Was it like the entire city?
Jivana Heyman 1:00:52
Yeah, I mean that's all I heard in the news, that the entire city was nominated for a Peace Prize. That doesn't really mean they'll get it, but I just think that was so beautiful, the way they stepped up and fought back against, you know, really authoritarian government that was really trying and continues to oppress them, and how they spoke up for their neighbors, who were really being directly harmed, like you said, by feeding them, driving them around, giving them care. I think it's really beautiful.
Deanna Michalopoulos 1:01:21
And opening doors, I think, at a time when it would be very easy for somebody to, like, not even open the doors. (Yeah.) Especially with such a central, like, the proximity of that studio to everything that was happening, it was right in the center.
Jivana Heyman 1:01:32
I wonder if you know, I'll just say that one last thought I have about it, and I wonder if we could all do that a little bit more, you know, and I'll speak for myself, that that is a goal I have for myself, is to not wait for an emergency to reach out to my community more, and to try to be connected locally. Although I do make a huge effort with our Accessible Yoga Community internationally, I also do want to connect locally, and that's been challenging for me to do both, but I just feel like we shouldn't have to wait for an emergency or crisis, and we can build those strong community connections ahead of time to help prevent further issues that might be coming down the road to strengthen our communities and our neighborhoods, and also support ourselves in a way, just by reaching out to your neighbors or your local yoga community and finding ways that you can support each other, even among yoga teachers. I just feel like what I see is in some local yoga communities, there's often infighting and competition, and I just wonder if there's a way to reach out to those that you feel aligned with, that you could collaborate with in some way. I just think the more we kind of strengthen these grassroots ties, the stronger we'll be in the end. What do you think?
Deanna Michalopoulos 1:02:54
That's beautiful, it reminds me of the pandemic, at the start of the pandemic in 2020, in New York City. I had a friend who had contact with some people who were impacted first abroad, and they were in an intense lockdown, and they really survived by, like, micro communities, right? So they had entire neighborhoods on a WhatsApp group, and so she recreated the same thing for us, and everyone sort of brought what they could do to this WhatsApp group, and you know, there was a time when there wasn't much food on the shelves in New York City, which is, you know, a very scary thing to happen, just unknown. And there was someone who imported avocados, and so his job, you know, he was kind of making his rounds to the neighborhood, and said, you know, please let me know your address, I'm happy to stop by with some avocados. But it is sort of that, what is the one piece that you can do? How can you contribute? And that's so hyper local, it doesn't have to be like the one thing that you do to like save everything, you're sort of like nourishing people one avocado at a time.
Jivana Heyman 1:04:07
I love that, one avocado at a time. And by the way, some people do it naturally. I just want to say, like, I think a lot of our listeners are naturally doing that, they're naturally caring for their communities and their families, and so if you're already doing it, you know, maybe you don't need to do more. And also it's just, it's any kind of loving action. I know that when my kids are little, that was the focus of my work, like just caring for them, you know, and I know for some disabled folks, caring for themselves is enough, that is their service, caring for their body and their mind, so they can get through that. People with mental health challenges, you know, I think really have to put the energy into their own survival. So, I don't, you know, I'm not saying all of us need to go out and do more in the community, but it's nice to think about what is your service? What is your role in the world? And it can be small. It can be taking care of yourself, or taking care of your child, or your parent, or whatever that is. Or if you have the energy to make it bigger, you know, if you have the capacity.
Deanna Michalopoulos 1:05:13
It could be inviting your neighbor into your WhatsApp group, right? (Yeah.) One small thing at a time.
Jivana Heyman 1:05:19
Yeah, one small thing at a time. All right. Well, thanks, Deanna. Thanks for being here, as usual. Thanks, Lucia. I really appreciate it. Thanks to everyone in Minneapolis who's doing such amazing work. And thank you all for listening. Hope to see you soon.
