Jivana Heyman 00:00:01
(INTRO) Hi, I'm Jivana Heyman, and my pronouns are he and him. Thank you for joining me for the Teacher's Guide To Accessible Yoga Podcast. This is a series of conversations that I had with an incredible group of Yoga teachers as I was researching my new book, A Teacher's Guide To Accessible Yoga, and I wanted to share these conversations with you in their fullness. Rather than just pulling quotes for the book, I wanted you to get a chance to hear everything these teachers had to say. So I hope you enjoy these conversations. Thanks for being here.
Jivana Heyman 00:00:40
All right. Hi. Thanks so much for joining me, Jason. I just really appreciate it. How are you?
Jason Crandell 00:00:45
I'm good. I'm good. Thanks a ton for having me. You brought up this topic. You're the specialist on this. I'm not sure what good information I can provide. But I'll give my I'll give my maybe one cent.
Jivana Heyman 00:00:57
Yeah, yeah, no, I appreciate that. I really do. I guess what I was hoping to do with this book, and in this podcast is to have a conversation with people in the Accessible Yoga world, but people who aren't specifically, because I want to talk about it more generally. I feel like, I also feel like Accessible Yoga has grown up a little bit, like that this conversation is now more mainstream also. And I actually do think you talk about it.
Jason Crandell 00:01:23
I do, I do. Yeah.
Jivana Heyman 00:01:27
And that's why I want to talk to you because I mean, so many people look up to you. I mean, I do I really appreciate you and your work. And I just feel like, that's what I'm curious to hear from you is where you find this coming into your work? Where is it that you find a way to make your classes accessible? Or what advice do you have for Yoga teachers, or people that you're training around accessibility? And maybe, I don't know, is that clear enough?
Jason Crandell 00:01:51
Totally. I want to take a step back. And when I was doing my very long training, in 2000 and 2001. As a part of that training, one of our teachers, who's named Joanne Lyons, taught Yoga for people with cerebral palsy, and so we did a two day workshop at the cerebral palsy center in Oakland with her. And it was hugely eye opening and really moving because, to me, this, the essence of the practice was the same, the only thing that was different were the techniques that we were employing, and the tools that we were using, but we're all looking for the same outcomes. Whether it was with, you know, all of us in the training, which were much more able bodied, or people with cerebral palsy, who have more challenges with movement. Our interest was, I believe, fundamentally the same. Like I didn't, when we were working with that community, and we kind of split off so that we had two people, two teachers working with two individuals. And I wasn't trying to teach them something different. I was trying to help them connect to their breath, right, move the best that they could move, and breathe and attune while they were doing it. So what I had to throw out the window was the shape. And it was a harder job, like I needed to have more tools. But essentially what I was trying to communicate was the same. The other, I think, formative thing around, that's similar to this is, you know, I spent a long time in the Iyengar world. I've never been an Iyengar teacher, but I spent a long time in there. And I remember being in a lot of senior level Iyengar teachers classes, in the back row, were people in wheelchairs. And they pretty much had like an individual teacher or assistant working with them. So if I was in Ramanand's class, you know, you have like a whole range of physical ability and skill. Not always the same thing, right? And that included people that were in the back row, who were working with pretty significant movement challenges, but they were still doing what they could do. And and so this to me, it always felt like we were all doing the same thing. We were all experiencing humanness and using these practices to you know, to navigate the beauty and the difficulty of humanness. We just have different tools, right? And, and when I see this with like a more able bodied population, it's the same thing on a different scale. Like, I have students that have so much more raw ability to move their body, like, you know what I mean? Like I have students that are way stronger than me, way more mobile than me, more fit, more conditioned, more skillful, even on some technical things. And then I have students that have their genetic code and their life and whatever cards they've been, whatever cards, they're holding their hand, they're different. And they're not going as far in poses. So it's like, to me it's it's we just get to mass witness this massive spectrum of movement. And I think that, for me as a yoga teacher, I'm just trying to facilitate what you can do as skillfully as you can do it while you pay attention to doing it. And some people go further and use fewer tools. Other people don't go as far and they don't use as many tools.
Jivana Heyman 00:06:14
Right, and which is what I was hoping to hear about from you. Because I agree, I think accessible Yoga is really broader than most people think. I mean, yeah, it's, you know, older people, people with larger bodies, not not necessarily disabled people always or people who identify as disabled, it could be any of us. And I feel like you, you know, well, any yoga teacher has a diverse group of teachers, if you're teaching a group, someone in there's older, somebody in there has a larger body, someone in there has a disability. You know, the actual the numbers are there, one in four Americans is disabled. So it's pretty, it's a pretty universal experience. But I'm just curious around the skills, I know that you're teaching or sharing with your students and people you're training around that, like teaching a diversity of students at the same time. That's kind of where my interest goes mostly is like, how do you how do you focus on that? What is it? I guess what you're saying already, as you focus on the themes, like there's skills that we're learning that apply to everyone, but maybe differently? And like, how would you share that? Or how do you train people to do that?
Jason Crandell 00:07:21
Alright. Let's see if this starts to answer the question. One of the things like, postures aren't end goals in and of themselves in the Yoga tradition. And that doesn't mean that we can't like the small me, Jason, that doesn't mean like, I can't have postural goals. Like, I have my vanities, I have my like, mundane interests. And some of those might be like, I want to go a little further in a pose, that's fine. But as far as the Yoga tradition is concerned, postures aren't end goals in and of themselves. But techniques aren't either. And this is something that I like, especially for me being someone that's, that's a little bit more of a on the technical spectrum of flow based Yoga. Even though I make a living on being technical on some way, like, technique isn't an end goal. Technique is still just a tool. And I think that what I try to communicate, especially to teachers that I'm teaching is, what we're looking for in any given pose is an equanimous experience. Where we are. Where we have spread our attention, we've spread our effort, and we've spread our sensation, right? We're looking for an equanimous experience. And so to get that, we use techniques, but we have to find the right technique for the right person. So this is where for me, going back to like Iyengar Yoga or a very technical Yoga or thinking like there's a right way. To me, these are all really important starting places, right? So like, I do have techniques that I prefer. And if you ask me if I have my opinions about triangle pose, like I will bore you to death, because yes, like I'm neurotic about it. But I also understand like, well, that's just the starting place. And then what we want to do from there is we want to modulate distances, efforts, using more support, less support to try to get that, that feeling like, "Oh, my whole body is here. And I'm breathing." Right? And so in some ways, I think it's okay, to identify with the pose, and to identify with the technique, because I think that those are for most of us, those are necessary fundamentals that then over time, help us transcend and actually just use various techniques to find the outcome that we're looking for which in this tradition, if in my understanding of it, is more of an equanimous state with our sensory systems. I think another thing for me just like practically, I think one thing to understand as I mostly teach pretty physically able bodied students. But even when you work with really able bodied students, if you want them to strive not for just more range, but more integration, more control, more equanimous distribution, even with them, you have to really break out of the technique and sometimes be like, okay, here are your three options, option one in down dog, take your hands as wide as the mat, see how that works. Option two, take your hands as wide as the mat and turn them out, see how that works. Option three, take them in line with the shoulders, go through all of those, pick what's best. So I think as a practical takeaway, for me working with the population that I'm usually working with, I usually do a lot of what I call like A B testing, or like, I'll tell people, it's a lot like, you know, you and I both wear glasses. Right. So we've been to the optometrist, and they're like this one, or this one? And you're like, I don't know, like, sometimes it's obvious, right? And then other times, you're like, I don't know, pick one. So to me, I try to do this a lot for my students is to not overwhelm them with the vagaries of do it anyway. Because I think it takes an incredible amount of knowledge and experience to like, be able to do that. I think you I try to start people with like, put your hand here. Let's feel how that feels. Put your hand there. Let's feel how that feels. Mechanically, those are both permissible, keep experimenting land on the one that fits. So I think I really try to expose people pretty much in every class to two to three different ways of working on at least two to three different poses, especially if it's more of like a peak pose or a focus pose. There's almost never a singular way. In a pose that we're going deep into, that I'm trying to get everyone to do. I'm like, there's this range, you have to play within this range and figure out which one doesn't work. Which one does work best
Jivana Heyman 00:12:54
Yeah, I appreciate that. In fact, I mean, that's basically what I do. Accessible Yoga is just like, and I actually was just writing about that, like trying to find the balance, because I think sometimes too many options is confusing. And I heard you kind of starting to say that, that it's actually more advanced to have an expectation that the student knows what is best, or what can find it themselves. Right? That's the advanced practitioner, right?
Jason Crandell 00:13:20
It's so advanced, I give this I give this like quick little anecdote all the time. So maybe like 20 years ago, I decided I wanted to start to learn how to cook. Okay. And so like, I went out, and I got like, a bunch of random cookbooks, and one of the cookbooks I got was the Zuni cookbook, which was in epic restaurant in San Francisco. It's like classic like, okay. And I remember trying to make this dish, and they in the ingredients, it told me exactly how much of everything until it got to salt pepper, where it said, salt and pepper to taste. And I was so mad. I'm like, dude, I don't know. Like that. You told me exactly how much how many onions, exactly how many bell peppers, exactly everything. And now, like, and it was a soup. It was a soup. So I'm like, I don't know, like I didn't know enough to fill in that blank. I didn't know enough to like, really inquire very well. But now that I'm like a competent cook, I would never look to see how much salt a recipe says right. So this is what I think about all the time, I really think that the the more foundational your knowledge and skill base is in something, the more you need limited options. And I always worry that like when I say that, because I don't want to be like tyranical or like, get away from the narrative of listening to your own body. But I also think if we're just like, just listen to your own body and do whatever, that presumes, like, a lot of ability, because that's actually a really hard set of choices to make. So another way I think about this all the time is like just curate the you're the teacher, curate the options. You you know what I mean? Like, don't say like, do whatever, give me a couple of options to play with. And then and then if something still isn't working, then then I'll try to sort it out for you.
Jivana Heyman 00:15:20
Yes. And maybe not too many actually because I feel like sometimes, well, I feel like there's two different things. One is the what you're talking about which is giving people options, clear options. The other is the language around it, which is like giving people choice. Saying, well, you have a choice, you can always offter something to do or whatever. But here's two clear options. I think that's to me, that's the balance is like, give them an out. But also, here's a specific clear instruction for you to work on. Because I think just yeah, just like do whatever is not really teaching. I mean, like just giving, you're actually handing over the responsibility to the student, which is why are they here with you? I mean, they're here with you to learn. But like underneath it all, I think just having the what's the word consent or something permission to find the way is key. And I think that's more just like can be said in the beginning of a class or something or are mentioned occasionally. And I think I sometimes get frustrated with what I hear. I don't know if you've heard of invitational language, is being used a lot in trauma informed teaching. Invitational language, just like every sentence includes some kind of question. And to me, it's a little frustrating.
Jason Crandell 00:16:39
I would struggle with that.
Jivana Heyman 00:16:41
And I think I think we're in agreement, because I think just because I've taught a lot. I think it's a nice concept. But when you actually get in front of real people who don't know Yoga yet, they will look at you like, what are you talking about?
Jason Crandell 00:16:57
I go to the specialist, because I assume they know a little bit more than I do. If I went to if I went to like, get a new Mac, and they're like, I don't know, just feel into it, I invite you to feel into it. I'd be like, jus curate my options for me, tell me like, this is what's good about this. This is what's good about this, spend some time with it.
Jivana Heyman 00:17:18
Yeah, no, the one thing I do, though, that you probably don't is like every option, I always give a chair option. So it's like, it's still the same idea. But I would always give like a chair and mat option, because I often have students doing both. Then that's not that different. I don't think that then what you're saying. I mean, it's just clear, concise instruction is helpful.
Jason Crandell 00:17:40
I think there's another thing that I say, I don't say at the beginning of each cue, but it's an ongoing narrative. And this is, especially when I'm working with people via Zoom, where I can see them, but not as well as in the room, right. And what I tell them all the time, I'm like, look, I'm gonna give you all sorts of verbal cues. I'm gonna say, "Jivana, bend that front knee a little bit more and lift the hip." But please understand, all I can assess, is my aesthetic interpretation of what you're doing. And that's not to say, like, I'm saying, it'd be prettier. If you do X, Y, or Z, it's, I can visually see I can have an aesthetic for what in my mind is a little more cohesive. But I am decently empathic, but I don't know if you can do it, right. And I don't know, like, there's like, there's a difference between how something appears to be and how something actually feels. And so I let all I say this all the time, like, when I give you cues, if those cues don't make you feel better and more equanimous in the pose, then they're not good cues for you, then they're me doing my best, but I'm not more of an authority than you are. Like, I'm more of an authority, if we were just drawing pretty pictures with a body that had like limitless options, and we are trying to recreate light on yoga, but your sensory experience is a greater suit than my visual understanding of what I'm seeing in your body. And I feel like the, I don't want this to sound bad, but like, ultimately, this is the student base that I feel more comfortable with, because I'm not a fundamentalist. And I don't really want to tell people what to do. And so I don't, so I'm not necessarily the best teacher for someone that in that moment, perceives that they want to be told, like, this is what to do it and this is how to do it. It's, it's not how I think. And so giving a range and letting them know, even when I cue you, I might be wrong. I have a more distant assessment of your experience than you do. So I'm going to give you my thoughts, but they're just meant to help you and if they don't help you then get rid of them.
Jivana Heyman 00:20:17
Can you talk more, you keep referring to the experience that you're hoping they'll have, but I wonder if you could speak more to that and how you describe that to your students? So if you have newer students, you said the equanimous experience of like, I think you're describing where you're you're maybe integrating your Integrating your experience in that moment have sense of sense and breath? Is that what you're saying?
Jason Crandell 00:20:42
Yeah, it's kind of like "let's forget the breath for a moment" said no yoga teacher ever, right? But but even just physically. So for example, like, to me, I don't want an excess amount of sensation in any part of my body in any pose. And I don't want an under representation of sensation in my body in any pose. So I kind of like explain this to people all the time, if I'm doing some basic strength training. And I'm like working on one muscle group at a time, I'm just focused on that muscle. And I'm kind of paying attention my whole body, but essentially, I'm like working my biceps to fatigue. I'm isolating, but I don't really see āsana as an, I don't actually see it as an isolation based discipline. I think that that. Because I think that the bigger broader existential picture is this. It's experience of like a unified feeling where everything feels like it fits together. So what I try to help people feel is like a cohesiveness in a posture, where both arms and both legs, they don't necessarily feel the same. But they have a similar quality of tone or effort, right? So for example, like warrior to your front leg is probably gonna get more tired than your back leg, your front leg and your back leg might not feel the same. But I want you to feel both of your legs, not just the one that has more sensation. And I want you to work those legs with a similar tone. And I want you to work the arms with that same tone, same thing, something like triangle pose, right? So triangle pose, like there's going to be a big stretch in the back of the front leg for most people, but so the sensation in the four limbs in that pose is different. But, I don't want you to just pay attention to the leg that's stretching. Pay attention to like, the things that aren't calling your name. So if you have a lot of sensation in the front leg, wake the back leg up a little bit, wake the bottom arm up a little bit, wake the top arm a little bit. Kind of think about like, the limbs kind of harmonizing to each other's effort load or last example would be something like any backbend, right? I say this, especially to my advanced trainees all the time, because if, like people, especially in advanced trainings, oftentimes put conscious or unconscious, a lot of pressure on themselves to do harder, bigger poses. And I tell people to be any listen, if you can do Urdhva Dhanurasana, walk your hands and your feet together and with your hands, hold your feet, I don't care, you will not impress me. If you can't do Urdhva Dhanurasana, I don't care, you're not going to disappoint me. I've seen it all. I'm not envious, I don't care. All I care about is that you work with your body as skillfully as you can work with your body. That's it. So in your back bends, instead of focusing on how far you can go, like, can you make your lower back, your middle back and your upper back have a similar sensation, like a similar quality and if if all you feel if you're going really far, and all you feel in your back is your lower back, it's probably not a very well integrated pose. Like it's not, in my interpretation of the yoga tradition, is probably not taking us in the direction we're trying to go. If you have a really shallow back then and your lower back, your middle back, your upper back, your legs, your shoulders, your arms are all like working together. That's a great that's a great post because that's like that's a unified experience the unified sensory experience and then yeah, when that kind of breath tags in but the technique I'm interested in techniques to the degree that they can help us feel like a more cohesive tone that we're working with in oppose in that is not like summer reading. Like that's that's like getting to that level and those concepts and kind of working with that. That takes a while but I feel like that those are the gifts indirectly that my teachers gave me.
Jivana Heyman 00:25:27
I love that. It's like an aliveness throughout the body. And whatever it is that you're doing. I wonder if you could tell about just any more tips that you have for like, maybe for newer teachers when they're faced with real students, I just wondered if you had people come back to you maybe after training in the beginning, and then they have real students and like, Wait, I didn't realize bodies are so different. And here I am, like, faced with telling them how to move like, I don't know, I've just had so many people come to me with that, like concern or worry. I don't know if your advice for people like that face the reality of it.
Jason Crandell 00:26:07
I think the first advice is to have a ton of compassion and patience for yourself as the teacher. And again, like I'm always giving examples. It's like, imagine if you taught a math class. And there were no prerequisites. And there was like, no age, and we wanted everyone to come and have a win and learn. And so and so people come in, they're like doing advanced algebra. And then the I come in, I'm like, wait, what's a fraction? Our job is really hard. And that's kind of like, let me say this, the more homogenous the group, the easier it is. So if everyone in that room is doing chair yoga, that's not hard. I mean, you might have some fewer things, but it's not that difficult to do. If everyone in that room is doing second series, Ashtanga, give me a break, that's a cakewalk. That's super easy. It's when you have like a huge disparity of experience. And current, physical ability, man, that's when it gets really hard. And I just tell people, first and foremost, be really patient with yourself. Lean back on being very nice to people, like just be nice. And then just try to meet people where they are. And that often includes giving people more props. So knowing how to use like a wall, that's, I don't use a ton of props. And part of it is because I teach flow, and I traveled for so many years, I would never know what studios or gyms or ballroom, I didn't know what they were going to have. But we all had a wall. So knowing how to like, help people, in certain circumstances, use a wall. And then just to have like a little bit more of a positive attitude. And to try not, I think there's a feel right if like, to not feel bad that someone in your class needed more help and didn't go as far and couldn't do everything. Like, I think we need to be incredibly supportive. But we also don't have to be like, okay, there's someone that is in a chair and they're challenged, they have this challenge. So all right, we're gonna just gonna lay down a child's pose for the next 75 minutes. It's not what anyone wants, you know what I mean? So like, when people are coming to more public classes, and they have more, and they need a more adaptable environment, like they're coming to a public class like, do your best, be nice, like, bust out some props for them, but be inclusive in a way that lets people kind of like the kind of normalizes, like a challenge that we all go through, instead of like, roll back the options for everyone all the ways and like make this like really small little world so that someone doesn't feel unincluded. To me that's not that's also not like another way. So yeah.
Jivana Heyman 00:29:40
Yeah, well, I heard when I heard you say it's there, mostly strongest part was like over expectations. As a teacher, I think that's especially newer teachers have very high expectations of what they're going to be able to do and what the students will do, and how it will go. And it seems like you're just trying to take that piece away. I like most I like being nice, actually.
Jason Crandell 00:30:03
Just like relate to people. Look at them in their eye. Be nice. Be like, I'm glad you came. Yeah, I'm gonna say one more thing, too, which is I have had, I remember when a student (she was actually pretty young, I think she was a teenager), she came to my class. It was a vinyasa class. And she had one arm. And I like my first thought was like, uh oh, we were going to do down dog and plank and Chaturanga and blah, blah. And she was sitting there and I could tell she wasn't novice. You know what I mean, like, I just I could kind of tell. And so I went up (I often would introduce myself to people I didn't know in this class because I usually knew people), I introduce myself. And I said, I said, do you practice regularly? And she said, Yeah. And I said, Do you feel comfortable with upper body weight bearing poses? And she's like, yeah, I'm like, can you teach me a little bit? Like, can you show me like, how do you work with down dog, and I didn't like, I didn't want to put her on the spot. I kind of did. But I didn't want to put her on the spot. But at the same time, I'm like, it's not like she doesn't know she's missing an arm. It's not like, this is some guarded secret. She's like, and she's in public class. And this is actually an opportunity for me to kind of like, learn from someone that I don't know. So to me, I don't know if that was the right choice. But to me, it felt like a more normal and transparent human interaction than like, okay, everybody, you know, this is a PowerFlow class, but I just took a yin workshop, so let's just do Wide Legged Forward Bend first for a few minutes are going to change class, that didn't seem right to anyone in the room.
Jivana Heyman 00:31:52
Right. The other thing I thought you would say, I've talked to many people about working with amputees, and it's like, you know, most amputees they know. Like you said, you know, everyone with a disability knows what their disability is and usually are okay with it. And it's like, usually just the public reaction, that's the issue. And it's like, so if you're teaching, and you have people with it, who are like, you know, who are an amputee in the class, you don't have to say like, if you have an arm, like you don't have to go and say, like, yeah, blah, blah, like people know, like, they know what their body is, they know where they're at what they can do, right. And I also like what you said about just asking her to show you because I think that also is a collaborative approach. And that's what I teach. And that's how I train people is to collaborate. That the student is the expert in their body and that you're there to work with them. So it's a two way, give and take, right? Like, you can offer a suggestion and they can tell you, well, that doesn't work, or that feels good, or this would be better. And people know their bodies often. So in fact, I would say disabled people even more so are actually more experienced and more sensitive to their body often than non disabled people because of that, you know, because of the challenges that we've had. So, yeah. yeah, I love that. Well, I really, I'm gonna appreciate your time. I don't want to keep you too much.
Jason Crandell 00:33:05
Oh, totally. Likewise.
Jivana Heyman 00:33:07
I really, I really enjoyed it. It was really fun. That's exactly what I was hoping to hear from you. It's just so good to hear from someone in your position, also, like how you deal with difference and disability in a class and different levels of students that was really very useful.
Jason Crandell 00:33:25
As a very like, are we officially done?
Jivana Heyman 00:33:29
No, I'm happy to hear anything else.
Jason Crandell 00:33:30
The only other thing I want to say is like, so I grew up my brother was still is and he's in, he's recovered, but my brother has a totally different challenge. But he was an alcoholic, and a drug addict of most everything for a long time. So I just kind of grew up...and also, like I dealt from the time I can remember with ADHD, anxiety, depression, like all these things, right? And I've always genuinely been interested in philosophy and psychology and the human condition. And so for me, man, I don't, I don't completely trust normalcy or like normative range. The I don't even know what I don't even know what that is. I don't buy it for a second. I think we I think we all have pretty complex and nuanced layers. And so to me, it's very normal to have psycho emotional challenges or physical challenges or whatever. So it's like, it's never strange to me, that someone kind of has a little bit different experience, because I don't really trust in like a normative experience, anyways. Like anyone that appears to be like, super well regulated and straight and normal. Give me away. I can't relate to that. I don't buy it for a second. I don't buy it. It's really weird. I'm like, okay, I don't know what kind of weird stuff you got going on. So I just don't I don't really, I don't always have the tools. I don't always have the experience. I don't always have the knowledge. I don't always have the personality to meet everyone where they need to be met. But I never think like, I never think that someone is like anomalous because their bodies different, or their minds different or whatever is different. I'm like, Alright, throw this in the soup, let's see if we can figure out and work with this stuff.
Jivana Heyman 00:35:51
Right? I appreciate that. Because actually, to be honest, a big part of ableism is not only just prejudice against people who are disabled, but also the idea that they need to be fixed and changed and fixed usually to comply with some idea of "normal" and non disabled. And I think that what you said is very important, because I do think often yoga has taught with this idea that there is a standard and norm and that we have to somehow all get there. And that's dangerous and kind of maybe happens more and more in contemporary practice, where you have this mixture of capitalism and ableism coming in and feeding this idea of normalcy and also have external, you know, achievement, that something would happen to you if you make this certain shape in a certain way, even though, we're so all different. And not only that, even though someone who thinks they're normal, it's like, what's going to happen when you get older, and if you are lucky enough to get older, and,
Jason Crandell 00:36:53
Or you get cancer or an autoimmune disease or an accident, you know what I mean?
Jivana Heyman 00:37:00
You're gonna you're gonna get older and die in one order or the other. And I mean, you can't avoid it. So like, you can't cling to that. It's just, it's just a kind of ignorance to me. And I think that misses the point of Yoga.
Jason Crandell 00:37:14
Yeah, for sure.
Jivana Heyman 00:37:15
I appreciate that. I really do.
Jason Crandell 00:37:16
Yeah. Well, thanks a ton for having me. Congrats on your book. Are you done with it?
Jivana Heyman 00:37:19
Yeah. Thanks for your time. I mean, I am. I am, by the time this is released, the book is going to be out. But you know, we're talking at a time when I'm still writing, I'm almost done. But I'm excited to add in. I'm gonna pull a quote from this and add it to the book. You said a lot of exciting things that I was, you know, kind of, and you say them differently. You definitely have a way, which I appreciate it. I kind was hoping to find that. So thank you for that.
Jason Crandell 00:37:21
Great. I'm glad I could help, you do really awesome work. And yeah, if you need anything else, just let me know.
Jivana Heyman 00:37:57
All right, thanks so much. All right. Have a good one.
Jivana Heyman 00:37:59
(OUTRO) Thanks, again for being here. I really appreciate your support. And I hope you'll consider getting my book, The Teacher's Guide To Accessible Yoga. It's available wherever you buy books. My hope is that the book will provide additional support for you in your teaching journey. For me, I always need to have a community of teachers around me to learn from to inspire me to keep me in check. And I hope we can do that for each other. So thanks again for being here. All right, take care. Bye.
