Jivana Heyman
Hello and welcome. This is the yoga Revolution podcast. My name is Jivana Heyman, my pronouns are he and him. This podcast is an exploration of how we can live yoga right now. And how we can apply the yoga teachings in our lives will discuss the intersection of yoga and social justice, as well as how to build a practice that supports our activism. All my guests are contributors to my new book, yoga revolution, building a practice of courage and compassion. Thanks so much for joining me. Let's get started.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the yoga Revolution Podcast. I'm excited today because I have a special guest, Beth Frankl, who's actually my editor from Shambala publications. Hi, Beth. Hi. Hi. Thanks for being here. So Beth is the executive editor at Shambala publications. You've been doing this for over 20 years, and I know you've been focusing on yoga books, but maybe you could tell us a bit about that.
Beth Frankl
Sure, yeah. First of all, I'm so excited to be here. I love your podcast. I love your books. I love you. So this is completely delightful. Um, yeah. So you know, Shambhala publications. Let me just talk about Shambhala for a second. It's Shambala is has a long history as mostly a Buddhist influenced publisher. That's over 50 years old. And but in those 50 years, we've really focused on so many ways to bring the Dharma yoga philosophy, spiritual traditions in a really genuine way to a large audience, how do we make it relevant for contemporary life? How do we make spiritual texts accessible to people, and relevant in a modern day for the things that cause us to suffer and so, you know, it's been a real, you know, honor and pleasure to do this type of work to really bring Dharma in every forum to a larger audience. Um, so, and part of our list, a really, really strong part of our list is our yoga books. And those really run the gamut from very specific sort of practices to translations and unpacking of the Gita, the sutras and, you know, really bringing and, you know, also your Veda and just bringing practice to people in all different kinds of forms. So I
Jivana Heyman
know that Shambhala had always, before I was writing for you, I always really looked up to that, you know, name and felt like it was a very classically oriented publisher, like it felt like the books were very serious and kind of traditional. And I, I feel like there's been a shift, though, like, there's been a shift to address more contemporary themes related to spiritual teachings.
Beth Frankl
Right, right. Yes, that's absolutely true. We've had to, you know, change with the times and like, Thank goodness for that, you know, because the real challenge is, how do you bring these spiritual practices into daily life? You know, for a long time, I think our yoga list was, it was very, it was on the more academic side and it was very, you know, more cerebral. And, you know, we were, you know, we had we did many books with the great Georg Feuerstein is a really, you know, just such treasures and also, you know, not just widely applicable to, you know, what people experience you
Jivana Heyman
work with him.
Beth Frankl
I did not know, he was actually before my time, sadly. But, you know, the, actually the first yoga author that I worked with at Shambhala was Richard Rosen, who is very close to Georg and, you know, I still work with Richard and it he's just, I mean, I can't even say enough about him. I just adore him.
Jivana Heyman
So my big names to like Judith Judith lasater,
Beth Frankl
Judith Lasater, right? Yes. I mean, she's so wonderful. You know, we've published so many really incredible off. I mean, we're really lucky. But as you said, you know, we really have started to bring, um, you know, widen the scope, you know, what does practice what is study what is like yoga Dharma mean, in this contemporary world? You know, how do we apply this. And that's really something that is been super important to us. And then, of course, your books, you know, fits so beautifully into that with Accessible Yoga of, you know, it's accessibility is more than about, like, you know, physical ability, it's about how do we make it accessible to everyone, you know, regardless of, you know, to open up the practice, it's not this rarefied practice, and then yoga revolution to really make that available to, you know, this, this is a very powerful practice that we need to take into the rest of our lives. So our list has been our yoga list has become more while we still do plenty of practice books. You know, we were really curious about where do you go with practice? How do you take it into the world?
Jivana Heyman
Yeah. And you have one other author I want to talk about was Michael Stone, who I felt like was talking about that so early, like before, really a lot of other people about addressing the suffering in the world through yoga and Buddhism, of course, he did both, but I love his books. And you were involved with us. Right?
Beth Frankl
Right. Right. So he Yeah, so, um, you know, what, a truly unique, brilliant. Yeah. Teacher. Yes. And so he did that early on. And the, the, that combination of Buddhism, and yoga philosophy. He did it so well. So skillfully, so beautifully. In a language that, you know, really? Was, was evocative? Yeah. really meant a lot to people. So yeah,
Jivana Heyman
I told him before I, my goal is to be a poor man's poor man's Michael Stone. You know, he's just incredible. And it's sad that he's gone, you know?
Beth Frankl
Yes. Yes. No, absolutely. So tragic. And yeah, he was a remarkable teacher, and, you know, um, you are very much your own author, and you're very, you know, you're really unique, and there are plenty of my, there are plenty of people that I talk with that would like to be some form of you. So, you know, what's, what's lovely is that I can I, you know, I look at my yoga authors, I think specifically, because I've spent so many years, you know, cultivating
just a lovely group of authors that, you know, where we can explore what they want to do and what's meaningful it from the tradition, you know, what,
Jivana Heyman
like, some of your contemporary ones. I mean, we talked about Octavia Raheem, I just interviewed for the podcast. So that episode will just come out. And it was just an amazing conversation. She's just incredible, thinker and writer, you know, just like a poet. She's really a poet.
Beth Frankl
Right, right. No, I mean, talk about a really unique, vibrant, beautiful view of like, you know, taking these practices into a whole new realm of, you know, in the, in the midst of life, finding that poetry and that solidity, yeah, that, you know, being grounded by the practice. And then, you know, the poetry of her words is really remarkable. I adore her. And Michelle Cassandra Johnson,
Jivana Heyman
yeah. My God, so brilliant.
Beth Frankl
She, you know, I really, I really feel like she is you know, she's an incredible Dharma teacher. She's really powerful voice that We need, you know, she's she's a truth teller. And she's going, you know, she's going to take us to a different place. You know, she's a real I feel like you don't find teachers like her, often Dharma teachers, she's really a leader. You know? I'm just, you know, an incredible person.
Jivana Heyman
And I know you have a lot of other authors, and I don't want to make anyone feel left out. So
Beth Frankl
no, no. Well, you know, I mean, I'm so lucky because I get to work with all of you, you know, um, but you know, but Shambhala also publishes, you know, Dianne Bondy and Hala Khouri and Tracee Stanley and Sarah Powers and, and I feel so lucky that I've been able to work with the amazing Linda Sparrowe. She's done a number of books for Shambala. And it's always a joy to work with her. She also works with a lot of the authors that come to Shambhala. I've been really lucky to to work with Alan Finger, who is just such a giant in the yoga genre, and I'm super excited about Nina Zolotow's new book for Shambhala. It's coming out spring '23. Yoga for Times of Change. So that is a book that, of course, we all are going to need, because we are in so much turmoil of change now. And I'm so grateful for all of that.
Jivana Heyman
Wow. But I want to talk about you. So to explain it. I mean, that was helpful. I wanted people to get a sense of all the amazing things that you work with and that Shambala works with, but I'm curious if you could share a little bit about your role and how you help to support all those yoga teachers who may not even be really writers. You know, what is that like for you?
Beth Frankl
Right, so, you know, I'm in terms of our process, so I'll just give you a window into like, sort of what my process is. You know, a lot of times I'll just be looking at different teachers and seeing what they're doing. Maybe they haven't even thought about writing a book. So, um, you know, sometimes I will get be, you know, agents will come to me with different writers, or I'll just come to you, or you come to me, yeah, no, I mean,
Jivana Heyman
I mean, I'll come to you with names, not just myself, but of other people, I think should be writing books. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker
No, absolutely. And, but a lot of times, you know, I'm always looking at who's out there, and who's doing what and what I'm, you know, what feels like it's fresh and new and important. And that sort of like who are mavericks out there, who and, you know, but at baseline, who, who's expressing this yoga philosophy in a really unique, different fresh way. Or linking it to, to, you know, issues that are super important that we don't have that we we just need more skills around? And how do we how can we bring our yoga practice into that realm in the realm of social justice in the realm of accessibility in the realm of you know, just internal, like managing our grief, managing emotions, showing up for our families, our communities, all of those things, like, you know, it's just yoga is just a vehicle for all of that. So it's I'm always looking at who's doing something new and interesting and fresh. Sometimes the new and interesting and fresh will be like who just communicates yoga anatomy really? Well. You know, one book that we're doing and Judith lasater is like, she's an amazing example of that. We have a book coming up in the next year. Or a year or so by a yoga teacher, Mary Richards, who's worked a lot with Judith Lasater and her concept and way of teaching about yoga anatomy is incredible. You know, so I'm always looking for people and then I'll approach them, okay. Coach them
Jivana Heyman
and then, and then you work with them, though. That's the part right? Maybe it might be more useful for people who are interested in writing a book to hear about how they could, how they could find you or how they could find a publisher in general. I would just wonder maybe that's
Unknown Speaker
awful. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what's interesting is that there's so many different publishing options available these days. So, you know, Shambhala is like, you know, we're a traditional publisher, so we're, you know, and so, it's a, it's really a partnership, in that, you know, you come up with a proposal, you submit it, we make you an offer an of an advance, and then we go through an entire writing, production process, marketing and publicity sales.
Jivana Heyman
Let's break that down a little bit more, because I just want to say, you can say it in one sentence like that, but it's like, it's like a devastatingly huge amount of work. Yeah. For the writer. I mean, I'm sure it's a lot of work for you, too. But I'm just gonna say from the writers side that, you know, unless you have to write a book, like don't do it, you know what I'm saying? Like, I just want to give that that's my piece of advice. Like, not everyone has to do it. If you feel called, if you're, like, really feel this drive to be a writer, that's great. And, you know, I love to write, but I didn't even realize the amount of work involved, honestly.
Beth Frankl
Well, right now, that's exactly. Well, you know, and there's some people who love to write. I mean,
Jivana Heyman
I do I love to write, but it's it's not just writing. It's like, you know, making a proposal, right? It's like this. It's, you make it sound like, it's one thing, but it's, yeah, like, you have to conceptualize an entire book. Right, for the proposal. Yeah. And I feel like that's, that's actually a really useful process. I know, for my for Accessible Yoga, I spent more time on the proposal. And so like, the writing was easier. yoga revolution, I didn't spend as much time on the proposal, and the writing was harder, right? It was like, less gap. Right, more creative flow was actually more challenging. So like, more time and proposal, the more together and like, yeah, nest. Right, the easier, right,
Beth Frankl
and it will, and it's, you know, it's a different kind of book. Yeah, you're in a different place when you wrote it, there's so many factors that, that go into, you know, that influence how you put together a book proposal. And, and, and write the book. So, you know, just from, first of all, yes, no, I I agree wholeheartedly. If you don't feel compelled to write a book, don't do it, it is very painful. And I always say to my authors, like, you have the tough job, I have the easy job. And, you know, but but there is real joy in in coming up with a project together of really developing it and envisioning it and then step by step, like, going through the process of, of, you know, of the writing. And, and then everything else that comes after the writing, the writing is the biggest part. It is the it's, it is really for the author the most. It's, it's the truth telling, it's the, it's, you're really giving birth to a part of you, you know, and it's, it's, um, you know, for most of my authors, I mean, this is really their life's calling their spiritual practice their life's work, they're, you know, it's an embodied part of them, almost, you know, and so it's yes, it's a huge undertaking, on many levels. So. So that is really the hard part. And I try to spend as much time as I can, with my authors to help carry them through that part. And so
Jivana Heyman
there was like therapy, it was like, my therapist, and I would get something to read and then you would just, like, help me reflect your like, reflected back to me, like a good therapist.
Beth Frankl
It's, um, but it's, you know, that's, that's part of the process. And I think, you know, one of the joys of being at a small press, like Shambala, is that I'm really able to do that. You know, it's my authors are just not like sort of just another name or number. You know, we're really involved with each other. So and you You know, when you're talking about people who you know, like, you know, Richard Rosen, TS Little, Judith Lasater, you know, where these people who have been, you know, Mary Taylor and Richard Freeman, I mean, people, this has been just, we're talking about decades and decades and decades of work. And, I mean, I will say that most of my authors do like to write some more than others, but But you know, that it ends up being like, it's a very difficult part of the process, but it's very, very fulfilling, and you really do go through a process, you know, so,
Jivana Heyman
no, I love writing. I mean, to me, it's, it is therapeutic, it's like, journaling. Yes. And then the challenge is that journaling, you know, is just a reflective process. It's not necessarily about communication. And I think that's where you're so helpful is like, you helped to guide the project in terms of focus, and kind of a, I wouldn't say a goal, but like a, creating something that is of use in the world. rather than it just being kind of this, like, reflective exercise for the author, you know,
Beth Frankl
right. Yeah. No, it's, it's about like, you know, keeping people on track. And, and, you know, because there's, it needs to be like, there needs to be an end result in something that's usable, and something that's, you know, it's, it's, it's self reflective, but it's also going to appeal and be of benefit to, you know, a real, you know, a wide audience. So, yeah, I mean, it's interesting, because, like, you know, there Kino MacGregor and I have had conversations where, I mean, she writes, she writes so much, she, that's part of her process, it's part of who she is, she loves to write, and she just works. It's, she works through a lot, just by writing. And so you know, but like, it's, that's just part of her process. And then, you know, together, we can refine that. So that really appeals to an audience that we can sell to. So So yeah, but yeah, it's a very difficult part of the process. You know, it's, it's, it's hard work.
Jivana Heyman
And you were saying earlier, like, there's many different ways to publish. And I wondered if you could talk a bit about why, why this way, like, so if someone's looking to write a book? What should they do? I mean, should they look for a publisher right away? Should they think about self publishing? Right? Yes. Just
Beth Frankl
so yeah, I mean, it's interesting, there are a lot of options right now, there, there are some really exciting options in, in the publishing world now, where the hybrid publishers, there are companies where you can order any kind of like level of services that you want to in order to Self Publish. And then the traditional publishers, you know, so there's, there's room for all, and I think it when somebody is thinking about writing a book, they have to really consider a number of factors, one of them, fortunately for us is, is you know, that, you know, we, we need to publish authors that have a, at least a solid following, it's really hard for us to, to get a book out to, on behalf of an author that just really doesn't have much of a platform. So that means and that can be tough now, in terms of like, you know, COVID, as well to have like, where teachers aren't teaching as much, maybe it's more of like, an online situation. But like, you know, one of the things I always say to people who are interested in writing a book is that, like, you really need to work on your platform before you even we even really have this discussion. So you know, really focusing on Instagram, Facebook, what kind of content you can put together? Can you put together a blog really having your website in order, teaching as much as you can, being parts of a part of professional organizations and, and, you know, seminars and really just connecting as much as you can
Jivana Heyman
to I think, I think people are confused by that because I think that publishers depend on the author to help sell the book, right? Like, that's what I didn't realize, like, you know, my job is to sell the book and the poet you help me but it's not like you're gonna go and just do that. Without me, it's it's a partnership. But, you know, first of all it take on trying to sell a book for someone who doesn't have a following our platform, it's a bigger lift, it's like, you know, you have to do all the work. So I think that's part of it is trying to look at what as an author, you're bringing, you know, what are you bringing to Shambala in terms of content and also how you're going to market it. I mean, it is a business. So
Unknown Speaker
it's a business, it is a business. And, you know, it's it is tough, you know, in in, like, the old days back in the day. You know, 20 years ago, when I first started at Shambhala, like there, were there, we were able to do some smaller books, you know, to maybe a more select audience. And, you know, so if we sold maybe two or 3000 copies, that was okay. Because somehow we were able to, like, you know, absorb, in the end that publishing, you know, environment was just different. And, you know, it's, it's really, really different. Now, you know, the way books are sold, Amazon is just this. I mean, as you can imagine, just like this gigantic player, and all of this, you know, how do we make sales? The, you know, the independent, independent bookstores now are, you know, they're more, you know, it's been up and down over the years. But, um, you know, it's, we really have to think about how do we, you know, where, where is the point of purchase, how are people going to find this book, you know, and so, you know, they, they find it through word of mouth, through blogs, through podcasts through, you know, and the author's platform is, is a huge way of getting that information out there. You know, we have an amazing, we have amazing sales reps, at Penguin Random House, they're our distributor, they're incredible, we're very, very lucky. You know, at the same time, it's very hard to do something with an author who really doesn't have any platform. But that said, I'll tell you, you know, a great idea is always a great idea, it's always worth pitching a great idea. And if you're passionate, and you love the material, and something that you want to explore, like, that's, that's, you know, I would encourage anyone to do that, you know, in terms of, you know, even exploring self publishing or hybrid publishing platforms. What's great about that is, you know, you may not get the kind of reach that a traditional publisher could offers, but, you know, but all the profits that come back to you are yours. So that's a great, you know, that's a great deal. So if you only sell like, you know, you sell under 1000 copies, at least, you know, all the profits come back to you. And so, and I, you know, and then often you if, if an author's able to sell a fair amount of copies on their own, that builds their platform, and then they can go to a traditional publisher, so I think it's exciting. I think there are like all sorts of options out there,
Jivana Heyman
right, like didn't we didn't talk about Susanna Barkataki. But, I mean, she'll be writing a book for you, right? Publish first and actually, Michelle self published first
Unknown Speaker
shouted to Yeah, yeah, it's actually same with, Octavia. Yes. And, and that's really, really exciting. Because, you know, all of them. Not only did a phenomenal job with their self published books, but they built their audience. And really allowed us to come in and make the most of that, and use that to go forward. And so yeah, no, absolutely. I think it's, and, you know, I also feel like what's so interesting, I find that my author to have self published, they really understand more and appreciate what the book business is. Yes. Right. And it's an it's because it's really tough and making those creative decisions on deciding what stays in the book and what goes staying on task. It's it's a very, very rigorous process process and so You know, all of those people we've just mentioned, like I will say, did a phenomenal job with their self published books, you know. And those really became selling points for us. Right? As we, when we brought them in.
Jivana Heyman
And I was like, that's probably why I had no idea what I was getting into, because I hadn't done it that way. I hadn't published a book. I was naive. But, but you helped me.
Unknown Speaker
Well, you know, and, you know, but I, you know, I'm gonna ask you, though, okay, you know, in publishing, you know, two books with us. Um, you know, when you wrote Accessible Yoga, you know, what were you thinking in terms of like, what, what did you want from us? Did we meet your expectations? Was it something that was, were there things that didn't pan out for you that you wished had been offered? Or? Better explained to you? Or? And did the process change you of two books? So there are two questions for you?
Jivana Heyman
Well, I'm with Accessible Yoga, I mean, now, I feel really grateful that I had the opportunity to work with you, because I, I'm so busy, like, I have a lot of projects going on, I mean, I run, you know, nonprofit, and, and I have my own trainings, and it's like, you know, my life is very chaotic. Plus, I have two kids who are a handful. So, you know, to, to be able to work with you and get Accessible Yoga published was really a dream come true, because I didn't have the energy to just like, go and self publish, like, I just wasn't up to that task. And I had, I had a lot of the material already, I've been writing for a long time and teaching that material for a long time. But it was just so helpful to get, you know, the support of Shambhala. And you in particular, in putting it together in a more professional way, and getting it out into the world, you know, which I think has been helpful for me. You know, and also it gave me it was a learning process where then I felt more comfortable going into Yoga Revolution, right. Okay, now I know what I'm doing. And I can be even more creative. So I feel like Accessible Yoga was kind of like my, what is it called? I don't know, like my learning curve. It was like my experience to like, figure it all out. And then Yoga Revolution is like a chance to, oh, let me do it the way I kind of want to do it now. Yeah. Yeah. That's really good. A second question, though.
Beth Frankl
Well, just how how did it change for you? In terms like, were there changes in? How you approached writing? From the first one to the second one? How, how do you feel like you've changed as a writer?
Jivana Heyman
Oh, totally. Oh, my gosh, it's completely changed. I think I've mentioned this to you before, but I have a background in reporting. When I was younger, I used to report for something called AIDS Treatment News, which is a underground AIDS newsletter, I used to write about alternative treatments for AIDS. And you know, so like, my training and writing was very reporting oriented. And I, I didn't see, I didn't really allow myself to explore the creative side of writing, but I'm a creative person. And so I think Accessible Yoga was a little, like, just starting to explore it. And then, you know, feeling more confident through that process. I feel like Yoga Revolution I could be way more creative. And, in fact, I think my writing changed from the beginning of Yoga Revolution to the end, like, I just feel like I learned more about my process. And became freer by the end of that long process. I mean, it was probably two years. Yeah, you know, till I felt more free. And I started to realize that when I was more free and more creative, that it was actually more powerful.
Unknown Speaker
It really allows your own personality and who you you know, who you are to come out. It's a real process of self discovery. Um, that's what I've found with a lot of my authors. You know, I think what was really interesting for me, you know, with yoga revolution, was that, you know, remember at the beginning, we were sort of, we're calling it rainbow mind. And, you know, and that, that that concept of rainbow mind was so powerful and But it was kind of it was more than that. It was even more than that. And what emerged? I mean, it was really a revolution. You know, it wasn't, it was the process revolutions, like a process, right, rainbow mind was, is a way of viewing the world and how you're going to be in it. And Yoga Revolution, though it's like, you know, you describe a process of revolution, personal revolution, you know, and just see, and there was, I mean, I remember we had a lot of conversations about, you know, because it was, it was hard to get to move just the focus away from, from just rainbow mind to sort of more of the process of how do you get to rainbow mind? Like, what, not just personally but you know, in, in our society, you know, right. And it was, it was a really, but it required a lot of you as an artist, as a teacher, you know, transmitting this, these teachings, you know, I'm to make that, making that change is
Jivana Heyman
up to me, you helped a lot, because I was, I was kind of stuck on that concept, I think and also on, on the idea of service in a more traditional way. And I think, yeah, it became, I think Yoga Revolution that became more of a process, like you said, more of like a journey. You know, and then trying to kind of pull apart the internal process of Yoga Revolution versus the external form that it takes, I think that was really helpful to kind of separate that. When we did that, in those two sections of the book, in particular, that helped me, which I think was your idea. I mean, it was so many of these things were your ideas.
Unknown Speaker
That's, that's my job. But it's but it's also my joy, it was a really, it was such an interesting journey. You know, I have to say that, you know, I mean, it's really a, it was a privilege for me to be part of that, you know, for, for some of my authors, it's just, you know, and certainly with you, I mean, there's, there's that idea that we're, we're, we're totally in it together, you know, and this is a, this is an extension of your life and who you are. And so, you know, part of my, like siva in the world is is to, you know, help, help that come about, you know, and to facilitate that. And I truly do believe that with the authors that I work with, and the books that we publish it Shambhala that, you know, it's really about, like, being of benefit in this world. And, you know, I know, I mean, I speak for my colleagues and that too, it's like, we're, we are, we, we take what we do so seriously, from that standpoint of like, you know, making this world a better place of really offering that really offering teachings that are going to make a difference personally and, and in the world, you know, right.
Jivana Heyman
So I appreciate the ways you've supported me and getting these books out there. I couldn't have done it without you. So thank you.
Beth Frankl
Well, it's been my it's been my pleasure and privilege for sure, you know, and so on. We go to other two more bucks me go to
Jivana Heyman
the next line. Now. I know I'm hesitating to talk about the next book. But you know, I feel like yYoga Revolution has so recently come into the world and I'm still so interested in what people's experiences of it and reflection and I'm, you know, planning two book clubs in the new year. Well, this is the new year, you know, in the next few months, and I'm excited to have conversations with people about the book, because it's, as you know, like so much of the book is personal reflection, but also questions for people to reflect in their own life. Like it's not. I hope it's not this kind of, you know, authoritative statement, but rather it's like, what I want it to be was like a shared experience of exploration where I share my experience, and then I ask people to reflect on theirs. And I hope that in a book club, we can have a dialogue about that. So yeah, it's interesting how I keep I still want to keep editing it, but it's like, it's done. It's out there. I can't.
Beth Frankl
Really can't. It's done.
Jivana Heyman
But, um, but yeah, I can just write a new one, I guess
Unknown Speaker
you can just write Yeah, no, that's, that's well, and that brings up another point, honestly, of of that, you know, one of the things that we really tried to do and, and I think, you know, I mean, this is definitely something that we do at Shambhala is that we really like to work with authors over the course of their career in their lives. And, you know, we publish authors who, you know, they are in spiritual practice for a lifetime. And what does that look like, when, over over decades, you know, and that's so exciting, you know, to see it's going to look different in different decades of their life and in different experiences that they have, as the world changes and becomes, you know, you know, how do we deal with the changes in the world. And so that's what's really exciting. So we really do like to publish authors over the, you know, the course of their lives in their career. And that's certainly happened at Shambhala. And but it's it's such an exciting opportunity, you know, to be able to do that. So
Jivana Heyman
I hope to write many more books, we'll see, a few more decades to go. I mean, I'm getting up there in age, but anything else you want to share,
Beth Frankl
um, well, I just, you know, I guess just reiterating that, you know, it's, it's truly been a privilege. You know, I'm so I'm so proud. This is gonna, I don't want this to sound patronizing. But, you know, I'm so proud of you, I'm so so proud of you, you just, you're, you know, you're a really amazing writer. And I also saw, you know, all of what you experienced as your, over the years writing these two books. These are, you know, it's not easy to write books in the midst of life and to, to bring your teaching and your Dharma into those spaces, and amidst your life experiences, your real day to day life, you know, the mass of life. And so that's, it's a very tough thing to be able to do and, and it's, it's their, their incredible books, and we're so proud of them. I mean, I just, you know, I'm just flashing on, you know, when we came up with the cover for yoga revolution, and how proud of it we were, you know, and our amazing designer, Kate white, just falling in love with the book and your teachings and just just just visually communicating the book and the cover and in such a scuffle wonderful way. You know, it's, it's, it's a, it really is a privilege, like a book is, is. It's the teachings and it's also the art, the beauty of the object. And I think, you know, those all came together so incredibly, beautifully for yoga revolution. So
Jivana Heyman
yeah. I'm really grateful to her and your whole team. I mean, Sammy, and Caitlin, I mean, there's who else should we think? Oh, I want to thank, you know, Serena Rogers for taking the photos of me. Yes. You had a big part in this and I don't think she gets enough. But on your side, I mean,
Beth Frankl
no. Yeah. Yeah. Summit. Sam is incredible. Love, just worked with so much love and passion. She's just a rock star. And yeah, our our publicity and sales team. You know, Caitlin, and everyone, Lena, our sales and marketing director. Just, you know, we love the bug. So it's so it was a really it was it was so happy making all along the line. I mean, really, so. Yeah.
Jivana Heyman
All right. Well, thanks. Thank you, Beth. And thank you to all of sambala for your support. And thanks for being here today and telling us about publishing and about you know, I don't know I think It was a really interesting episode. I think people enjoy hearing about this. I think it's a really exciting topic inside scoop. All right, well, thanks. Thank you, Beth.
Beth Frankl
Absolutely. My pleasure.
Jivana Heyman
Thanks so much for listening and joining the conversation. yoga is truly a revolutionary practice. Thanks for being here. If you haven't already, I would love for you to read my book, yoga revolution, building a practice of courage and compassion. It's available wherever books are sold. Also, you can check out my website JivanaHeyman.com. There's some free classes on there and a meditation and you can find out more about my upcoming trainings and other programs. Hope to see you next time. Thanks. Bye
