Jivana Heyman 0:05
Hello and welcome. This is the Yoga Revolution podcast. My name is Jivana Heyman, my pronouns are he and him. This podcast is an exploration of how we can live yoga right now. And how we can apply the yoga teachings in our lives will discuss the intersection of yoga and social justice, as well as how to build a practice that supports our activism. All my guests are contributors to my new book, yoga revolution, building a practice of courage and compassion. Thanks so much for joining me. Let's get started.
Hi, everyone, its Jivana. I'm back with another episode of yoga revolution podcast. And today, my special guest is Mei Lai Swan. Hi.
Mei Lai Swan 0:59
How are you? Jivana.
Jivana Heyman 1:01
Hi, how are you?
Mei Lai Swan 1:02
I'm great. lovely to be here with you.
Jivana Heyman 1:05
Yes, thank you so much. All right. Let me introduce you more formally. And then we can talk I wanted to share a bit about your background. So Mei Lai Swan born on the unceded indigenous lands of Australia. You're the founder of the social enterprise yoga, school yoga for humankind, offering specialized trainings in trauma informed yoga, and embodied social change. Dedicated to the paths of yoga, meditation and community practice for over 20 years. Mei Lai Swan's approach to yoga is deeply embodied, inclusive and inquiry based. She's an experienced yoga teacher, trainer and certified in body flow facilitator, with a professional background in music, community development and social work. You specialize in trauma informed yoga and social justice somatics and nada, yoga, sound and mantra. And you're passionate about building community and making the richness and depth of the yoga teachings and practices accessible, relevant and empowering for every body, heart and mind. And I can link to your website in the show notes. How's that?
Mei Lai Swan 2:15
Thank you. So it's weird hearing your own bio being read out to you.
Jivana Heyman 2:21
I know. It's kind of funny. I enjoy it. I enjoy reading people's bios so they can hear about themselves. Thank you. Thanks for joining me today. And you're in Australia right now. Is that right?
Unknown Speaker 2:35
I am. I'm on the land of the Arakwal and Minjungbal people in the Bundjalung nation otherwise known as the area of Byron Bay, which has become Insta famous for all of the wrong reasons. But it's a beautiful, beautiful place and the land is very magical.
Jivana Heyman 2:57
Yeah, yeah. Byron Bay. I mean, I've actually was supposed to come, you know, then COVID happened, but I was on. I had a plan to come teach in Australia and then got cancelled. And my friend, Maria Kirsten, you know, who passed away? She lived in that area, I believe, you know.
Mei Lai Swan 3:17
We look forward to welcoming you at some point.
Jivana Heyman 3:21
Someday. Yeah. Well, so the way I've been doing this podcast is I've asked each of the contributors to read the section that they wrote for the book. I wonder if you could do that. I can do that for us. Yeah. Thanks.
Mei Lai Swan 3:37
And I'll start with the question that you asked to how does yoga practice support your service and social justice work? For me, yoga is not just in support of but it's at the heart of my service and social justice work. In my late teens, I had some profound experiences and interconnectedness and compassion through the practices of meditation and yoga. These experiences, both to deep fire to be of service through love, to care deeply for each other and our Earth. This shifted me from studying astrophysics to a 20 year plus path of service through spiritual practice and teaching, community and social justice work. These threads have eventually woven together into what I share today, embodying trauma, informed yoga and social justice education. My own practice has been both the fire and the water throughout. It's been a path of great personal transformation and healing, and has nourished me along the way with inner guidance, resilience, courage, and a strong ethical foundation. yoga is truly my ground, my compass, my service and my joy.
Jivana Heyman 4:50
Thank you so beautiful. And I'm so glad we get to talk about it. Because ever since you sent this to me, I've had lots of questions for you. Two main things. And I, we could talk about them one at a time. But I'm really curious about some of those experiences. You mentioned the beginning, you talk about profound experiences of interconnectedness. And I don't know how much you can share about that. But I'd love to know. Yeah, of course, I want to know about astrophysics, too. So
Mei Lai Swan 5:17
I mean, just to touch briefly on that one. It's like, I wanted to study astrophysics. And then through, you know, the path of you're going like, I'm an astrophysicist on the inside, that's a way better petition.
Jivana Heyman 5:29
On the inside, look at that.
Unknown Speaker 5:31
Yeah. But yeah, I mean, going going back to those experiences in my, in my late teens, it was actually on my first so I did my first 10 day meditation retreat in Thailand, when I was 18. And had been kind of dabbling in in meditation and Tai Chi and different practices before then. And I mean, it was in in Thai Buddhism in Theravada, Buddhism, actually, where I really got my foundation in spiritual practice. And I was doing a walking meditation in a hall that had no walls, and looking out over coconut grove, I was very serious, very focused. And then as I was walking, I noticed everything start to turn shimmery, like a shimmery gold, and sort of shimmer dissolve in front of my eyes. And, and then I saw everything pulsing. And as that happened, I noticed that it was pulsing with my breath. So as I breathed, everything expanded, and then contracted, and I had this beautiful recognition of all this is the one breath. And the most profound experience of oneness, which is often a word I shy away from, but that, you know, that deep interconnectedness, and wow, and, and at the same time, this insight dropped in that this life like this human form, this human body, and all of our senses, and then the apparent world, with all of the sense objects that bear the perfect manifestation of life in order to experience itself. And from that place, that I mean, that's obviously stayed with me for my whole life. But from that recognition, I mean, it's kind of the cliche, but it's the point, in a way of yoga is once you recognize your interconnectedness with all of life and the source of all of life, you can't help but find compassion and feel compassion. Yeah, so that that's, that's the experience I was alluding to there.
Jivana Heyman 7:54
I love that. Thank you for sharing. And you shared it so clearly I could just visualize it, in my mind, is so powerful. It's almost sometimes I think, I used to have, I used to want those experiences. I had some similar, maybe not quite like that. But um, and I used to seek them out. And then I, it occurred to me, at some point that I'm having them all the time that this reality, this reality is amazing and magical. And like, if we just see it that way. We could have we could feel that way all the time. I guess that's what I mean with that with those eyes. Yeah, yeah.
Mei Lai Swan 8:34
And then that's the practice, isn't it? It's like you have the insights, the moments and Revelation, and then the practice of embodying a moment to moment.
Jivana Heyman 8:44
Yeah, exactly. So maybe, share, maybe you could share more about well, I guess I want to go back to astrophysics. First, before we go into your work, because I love I'd love to hear more about your work on trauma informed teaching is really interesting to me. But astrophysics, is that the study of space? And I mean, what is that? I don't even know what it is.
Unknown Speaker 9:07
It's a study of the structure and form of the universe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when I was in my, it's funny that I went to study physics at university because it was my least favorite subject at high school. But then you know, after about 15 somehow I fell into some popular science books and got completely obsessed with complexity and mathematics and black holes and astrophysics, and I became really obsessed with it. I wanted to study it. But it all got my studying. I was studying mathematics and physics, and philosophy and linguistics alongside each other. And I studied a subject in in Buddhist philosophy. And it turned everything upside down because I felt like I'd found home and
Jivana Heyman 9:59
yeah, That's so amazing. Yeah. And actually, in my, in my book that we're talking about I, I refer to a study of the similarities between structures in space and the brain, the neuron neurons, I guess, and the way they connect with each other. And the way that galaxy clusters are connected, there's almost everything visually, it's almost looks almost exactly the same. It's pretty incredible.
Unknown Speaker 10:25
Yeah, I love actually, you know, physicists, understanding so much about the structure of the universe, but when they get to consciousness, they don't know what to do. Reminds me in one of like, when I'm teaching on the yoga sound, and looking at the big diagnosis, cute video from this from the 60s, and you know, where they sent the space probe out to space, and they discovered cosmic background radiation. And they turned it into a single sound frequency. And video, that's, you know, it's called the sound of the Big Bang. And it's, it's great. I use it to sort of demonstrate OM as well, but at the end, they're like, but how do we really listen to the sound of the university? How do we? And I always think it's so funny, because from that moment, I'm just like, you know, as a yogi, like, Yeah, listen, by going in to your own consciousness. And instead in the video, they go into this explanation about the technology of the space. Great.
Jivana Heyman 11:32
Yeah, I love that. I love that connection between science and spirituality. It does seem like a lot of scientists are very spiritual, actually, and maybe become more as they continue to ask questions through their life, you know, they seem so interconnected, trying to understand the nature of reality, using different techniques and different forms. You know, like, yeah, it's so interesting. Can you tell us about how you got involved in yoga? I mean, is that was it just through your interests that you just or did someone inspire you in your life?
Unknown Speaker 12:09
I am. I actually I started doing tai chi, and then meditation, like from my mid teens. And I was, I've done bits and pieces of yoga. So we, you know, that first meditation retreat I did, there was yoga there. And, you know, I was an activist from pretty early on, so I'd be going to different activist things and, you know, camping out and there'd be your people would offer yoga. And so it was around me, and I avoided it, because I was like, No, everybody's doing yoga. This is back in the late 90s. Everybody's doing yoga, I don't want to do it, because of course, I wanted to be doing something different from everybody else. So I actually avoided it for years. And then in my early 20s, I think I was about 21, 22. I had a, from doing a lot of meditation, I got really got into Tibetan Buddhist meditation, I was doing hours of meditation a day reading all of the texts and, and I had a breakdown, like I had quite a serious, you know, mental emotional breakdown, which also I recognize at the time was a spiritual breakthrough. And there was something intuitive in me that knew I had to get into my body to ground because I really wasn't okay. You know, in that recognition, I've been doing so much of my practice, I have a very strong mind. And I was doing so much in my practice in my mind, and beating myself up. And so with that breakthrough, I started practicing yoga actually got really into Iyengar and then Ashtanga for for quite a few years, which was great. No, my early 20s I just, I just needed to really strengthen and grow.
Jivana Heyman 13:57
Hmm, that's amazing. Yeah, I can really relate. Personally, yeah. I'm more like it that way to like, I love to think and question and examine things. And you know, just being being in the body is always more of a challenge that that's so great about yoga, you know, we have this balance, you can find the find the way that works for you, individually. Any combination of these amazing practices.
Mei Lai Swan 14:27
This is what I think is so amazing about yoga as well, because it's you know, I mean, I guess the way that it's been adopted in the West has primarily been as a physical practice. But then when you get into the the breadth, and the depth of yoga and all of the different lineages, there's actually such a complete practice. It's got a you know, it has the philosophy. It has all of the mindfulness and meditation. It's got the physical practices, the energetic practices, and the psychological tools and practices and insights as well. Yeah, Yeah,
Jivana Heyman 15:00
yeah. And actually, like you mentioned in your quote, has ethical foundation. And I feel like, it's so important in spirituality to have that ethical foundation, you know, we can easily go wrong, ourselves and through our communities, you know, there can be so much there's so much abuse, and I don't know, not just abuse, but just like misdirected energy that can happen in yoga communities. And I, I think a lot about how the practices, raise energy and give us all this access to a lot of power. And then if we aren't working on the mind through well, with an ethical foundation and just self awareness, then that energy and power is just exaggerating, whatever is already there, you know, it's exaggerating the ego, whatever tendencies we have, that are in the mind. So it feels like to do just the physical. And, you know, I understand it's a great place to start, like, I love asana, and I think starting with a strong physical practice is amazing. But if you if you keep going too far, without bringing in that awareness, and ethics, I think it can cause trouble. Yeah,
Mei Lai Swan 16:18
absolutely. And, and it's an interesting one to around the ethics of yoga, because in a way, this, you know, we're not like when I described that experience that I had early on, you know, that experience of that fundamental interconnectedness, and a well of compassion that flows from there, or even understanding, how do we create harmony, together, looking at the way that life moves and nature moves, and how we want to be together, you know, that so much, so much of the harm that's caused comes from ignorance and wounding? And that, you know, how do we bring that all back into harmony, and wholeness? From that direct experience? And, of course, on the way, those ethical foundations, you know, the principles and the practices given to us in yoga, and other traditions as well. The like, the ladder notice, sort of help you get there on the way.
Jivana Heyman 17:25
Yeah, I love that. It's beautiful. And in a way, I mean, that kind of leads me to trauma informed yoga, because I feel like trauma informed teaching. Well, I'm curious to hear how you describe it. But I feel like the way I've been thinking about it recently is, is that it's around a lot of has to do with power and power dynamics within yoga. And I've been, I've been thinking about trauma informed teaching as a way to give the student or participant equal power and control over that situation when we're in a group class, for example, and how trauma informed that is, or that's, that's really what it's about, it's about the power. But what do you think about that power dynamic, in yoga?
Unknown Speaker 18:12
Absolutely, that's at the heart of it. And so when we understand what trauma is, and how it shows up, and I, you know, in a very, very simple way, I think about trauma as disconnection about fundamental relationships, our relationship with ourselves, our relationship with the world with others, our relationship with spirit, you know, that sense of something greater. And that can happen in many, for many reasons. And in many ways, it might be a traumatic experience that's really overwhelming, and that we didn't have the support that we needed, or the resilience to integrate it. Or it might be, you know, I've been thinking about this too, that it might be cultural, it might be because of our social conditioning and the culture that we live in, where we weren't taught, or shown how to be in connection. And I think that's our relationship with nature today, our relationship with spirit for so many people. And then there's the social relationships, whether that's infinite, and they are broader social relationships. And perhaps someone was, you know, in terms of attachment, that early childhood, those early childhood relationships, someone may not have, given being given the opportunity to learn how to be in connection. And all of you know what we know now that the interpersonal neurobiology and child development or those relationships might get disrupted later in life. So all of those experiences lead to an imbalance in the sense of self and sense of self worth or connectedness and there's where the power comes in. As it disrupts our relationships, and it can make us either feel really, really small and disconnected or to compensate, we go into having power over.
Jivana Heyman 20:13
As a trauma response. Interesting.
Mei Lai Swan 20:16
Yeah. So you're absolutely right. At the heart of it is restoring power dynamics. But when we restore power dynamics, we also restore healthy connection. Mm hmm.
Jivana Heyman 20:30
Yeah. Cuz I actually had until you said that I hadn't really thought about how, like, the abuser is also having a trauma response, right. Like, that's an unhealthy relationship that they're creating, and probably based on their trauma. So that's so brilliant. I love that. Yeah, cuz I've been thinking a lot about how the intersection of Accessible Yoga and trauma informed yoga because I feel like really, you can't have one without the other, you can't make yoga accessible without being conscious of that.
Mei Lai Swan 21:05
Yeah, yeah. And what I love, you know, what I love so much about the work you do and about Accessible Yoga is that it's, you know, you're helping people to restore their connection with their own bodies and their own self in a way that's accessible to them, you know, in a way that's meaningful to them. Because you can't restore your connection to your body and your sense of self in a way that works for somebody else. So that's how I see you know, like, in Accessible Yoga, that's what you're doing. You're just providing the pathways for reconnection to self. Yeah, in a way personally meaningful.
Jivana Heyman 21:46
Yeah. And I'm wondering how you how you got interested in trauma work, because I know that you you lead trainings on trauma informed yoga, and it's been some a passion of yours.
Mei Lai Swan 21:56
Yeah, I mean, so I studied international development and environmental studies. When I when I go to
Jivana Heyman 22:04
what didn't you study, maybe we should start with that. Have you not studied?
Mei Lai Swan 22:10
Anything you're not good at? And like, I'm not that good at sleeping. And I'm not good at making coffee. That's a start. But there's many, many more. That's changed now. Now. I'm good at sleeping, because I've been
Jivana Heyman 22:25
awesome. How's the coffee going?
Mei Lai Swan 22:27
I don't drink coffee. That's why I
Jivana Heyman 22:31
don't have to make it. Problem solved.
Mei Lai Swan 22:35
No, there's so much there's so much that I don't do I believe don't do.
Jivana Heyman 22:41
I don't believe that. But yeah, okay. So you're studying what you're studying,
Mei Lai Swan 22:46
I was studying. Yeah, environmental studies and development studies. In my, when I quit my astrophysics. But it was, you know, it was learning everything that was wrong with the world socially and environmentally. And then, in this in my own studies, you know, my own spiritual practice as well, just touching into that deep place of suffering. And then I went on and studied, you know, I worked in community development and social work. And I just saw so much suffering and so much abuse of power and so much ignorance. And we didn't have the language at that time around trauma. It's so recent, that we're understanding the concept of trauma. But I had such a fascination with, with the human condition, and with this deep suffering. And interestingly enough, it's been so long, it's taken me so long to recognize my own experiences of trauma through my childhood. Because when you grow up, and you don't have a name for it, life is normal. Right? So I actually, it's only been, you know, maybe in the last 10 years that I even understood that so much of what's driven my work, and my path in life, or even meditation and yoga, has been my own experience and my own suffering of trauma and a deep sense of justice and fairness through that.
Jivana Heyman 24:18
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can relate I, I mean, we're talking about this, this podcast is about my new book. And that's really what the book is, for me is trying to share some of the experiences that I've had that have led me here and have shaped my understanding of yoga and spiritual practice, and based exactly on what you said, I mean, the traumatic events that have really thrown me and also taught me a lot and then also looking at the ways yoga can address that, and the support you can find in the practices. But it's it's a It's complex, I'll just say that it's complicated, like people keep asking me to summarize this book. And it's like, well, there's really a lot of things. I don't know. And I feel that way about yoga and trauma to like, I think it's just such a complex area. But can you tell us more? Like, what are your like, what is there thinking these days about it? And has it shifted all the way you think about yoga and trauma,
Mei Lai Swan 25:24
definitely in keeps evolving. And like I was sharing before, I think, you know, what we were what we understood as trauma, or even know, five years ago, or 10 years ago, it was still a sort of a clinical idea of trauma, something bad happens to you. And they you individually have to heal from that. That's, and I know that that idea is still common, because it takes even though when when, you know, research and knowledge and understanding involves these broad concepts they stick. So there's that more clinical approach. And the way to heal from trauma, you know, is by going to see a therapist, that's the clinical model, and it's your personal responsibility to do something about it for yourself. Yeah. That's, like, on one hand, that can be the case, and I'm still an advocate of therapy, I think it can be amazing. But when we understand trauma, in the context of disrupted relationships, and disconnection for a whole range of reasons, like I named before, then the pathway to healing looks really, really different. And the the blame, so to speak, is also really different. It's not on the individual, but what are the cultures? And the systems that we live within? What are the communities? What is the strength of our social systems? How do we support one another? How do we stay connected and nurture one another, and the pathway to healing looks very, very different. And, and I'm a big advocate that we need to work on all of those levels at the same time, not necessarily all, exactly, you know, synchronistically. But working, working at all of them. And yoga is amazing, because it's such a powerful tool for working on an individual, and interpersonal and interpersonal level. But this is where the social justice piece comes in is that we have to be looking at our culture and our systems and our connection to nature.
Jivana Heyman 27:52
Yeah, that's what I love you so much, because I love the way you connected trauma to that. Can you say more about that and the connection between? So well, I'll just what I just heard you say is that in the past, it seemed like we were approaching trauma as an individual problem. Yeah. And now you're saying we need to look at it maybe more meta view and like, this is a cultural problem, a global problem, like there's bigger issues that are creating trauma, right. And it's not just on us as individuals to fix ourselves, but rather to address the systemic issues. Is that right?
Unknown Speaker 28:35
Absolutely. I love your clear, succinct summary. This I'm not so good at that piece. Thank you. Great,
Jivana Heyman 28:44
thank you, you're very clear. Actually. I just need to repeat it back to myself to make it clear in my head, but I think that's what I really always resonate with your work because I love that consciousness of these larger issues. And I'm very interested in that especially like around you know, what is social justice? Really. And, and I love the idea of like, trauma, addressing trauma through social justice. That seems like a really interesting avenue.
Unknown Speaker 29:12
Yeah. And and the reason why I see that you're going social justice have to go together or you know, a spiritual path. Yeah, social justice. Because what I've experienced in the social justice world is trying to fix it is about trying to heal trauma. It's about trying to help people heal and live better lives and be in connection you know, in the social work and community development work I've done that's what we try to do. But when the bigger picture, and the element of spirit and that deeper connection is missing, it can become a fight. You know, a partner can become a power struggle. I've watched and I've experienced people get So caught in the mind, and, you know, mind based approaches to fixing things, and what's the quote from Einstein. So you can't solve a problem from the same mind that created it from the same mind that created it, like, it's so spot on talking about someone, you know, a scientist who was deep in the spiritual realm. So there's, there's that there's that piece. And I know for me when I was deeply involved in activism, in my late teens and early 20s, I had a lot of, you know, I also had a lot of anger and a lot of frustration, you're starting to learn about the systems of the world that I grew up in, and just seeing how unfair it is. And I watched a lot of my friends and colleagues doing the same and the actions came out of, of righteous anger, you know, it was a healthy anger as well. But I also watched how it didn't help people necessarily get hurt. Sometimes it does, I'm not gonna say there is not a place for healthy anger. There absolutely is. But because I was so deep in my own practice of Buddhism and meditation, I had this deep sense that I want to create the change, and I want social justice. But it has to be from a place of love, and compassion. So it gives that broader view of rather than blaming people of having that deeper compassion, and understanding how entrenched ignorance and trauma or wounding is just ramble.
Jivana Heyman 31:49
Amazing, it was very clear. I could listen to you talk about all day. I need to take your training. And so I should say, maybe you're you're leading, or you're still leading trainings. Yeah,
Mei Lai Swan 32:01
I've moved the line because of COVID. I miss so dearly being in a space with other humans. And but I am and I'm so grateful. Still young, we're so fortunate to have this technology. So
Jivana Heyman 32:14
tell me what you're doing. You're leading trauma informed and social justice are into they,
Mei Lai Swan 32:19
they're into words. And so I'm offering 100 hour training, which in a way, I mean, it's so weird putting hours on it. But it's life, it's a life work. But I really felt like for me sort of 100 hours is, is kind of the minimum, you know, when people are really engaged to have a foundation and to cover all of the pieces. As you can see, there's lots of pieces, so to cover all of those pieces, but it's split over four modules. So the first one is trauma informed yoga foundations. And the second module is yoga, social justice, and spirit. And I run that and in collaboration with an Australian, indigenous trauma healing organization, they're actually an hour away from my home is where the amazing organization, and then with other guest speakers from around the world as well. And then there's a module that's embodied facilitation and community practice to more of a practice based module, and then a short 10 hour. There's a more of a personal practice program yoga for connection, healing and resilience, which is also one of our public programs. Yeah,
Jivana Heyman 33:34
sounds amazing. Okay, I have one more question for you. I was looking back at the quote that you were in that you read to us earlier, and you say something that just really got my attention. You talk about your practice being fire and the water. And I love that image so much. And I just wonder if you could expand on that, like, how does you feel about yoga being both the fire and the water? Yeah. Are you saying your practice, maybe not yoga, but maybe because your practice might be bigger than that? But I don't know.
Unknown Speaker 34:09
It is bigger than that. But also the way I see yoga, is that it's, you know, it's, yes, there's the support and the guidance and the tools given to us so generously from the lineages, but ultimately, your various your arm practice of deep inquiry and deep inner listening. And so for me, yoga is the word that encompasses my practice, but it includes, I won't share some of the weird things that I've done, but it's a lot. Um, but yoga, you know, it's kind of that's the that's the anchor. But yeah, so I mean, when I say that it's the fire is It gives me the inspiration, and the concrete practices and tools for transformation. Now really thinking about what's, what's the element of fire, what's the nature of fire, it's both warmth. And it's also transformation. You know, it's, it's fuel, it's the burning. And that that's, that's inherent in us as human beings at some point or another, know that we come into manifestation and at some point is the call to go home as the caller he'll, and it comes as a fire more often than not. And so I know without, without those practices, you know, sometimes we can get an inkling of, I need to shift something, something needs to change. But without the anchor and the fire of a practice. Often there's no fuel to really make it happen. Unless you're really lucky and I have been many times and then just completely have my ass kicked. Kali, the Goddess Kali is my best friend, she's kicked last so many times.
Jivana Heyman 36:15
You have to be careful with your friends
Mei Lai Swan 36:19
that they find you and then they don't go away sometimes. Yeah, and, and then the water, the water of it is but it's also the bomb. It's the nourishment. It's the soothing, it's the day to day like that day to day nourishment. And when things get, you know, when I've really been burnt in the fire, then I take refuge in my practice. And maybe how my practice looks shift. You know, one of my practices recently, I've been working a lot actually with nature connection and working with the elements and working with prayer and working with Lakshmi. So doing quite a dedicated practice with Lakshmi.
Jivana Heyman 37:00
She's a better friend, I would say,
Mei Lai Swan 37:03
right, this is I'm finally learning. Don't just accept the friends that are put in your face, but also choose the ones that are really useful for
Jivana Heyman 37:12
yes, I would think so. Abundance. Yeah, yeah. That's amazing. Well, thank you. Is there anything else you want to share?
Mei Lai Swan 37:21
No, I'm just but now I'm in this space of I want to hear all your stories.
Jivana Heyman 37:27
Well, you can read the book, it's all in there. Put them into... put it all into it. Yeah. Well, it was. It's funny, you know, it was such a joy. And I didn't say joy, it was a process, but enjoyable process to write. And I, you know, to me, that's a creative process. And so I realized in many ways, I've already let it go. You know, like I had it, I had the experience of writing and editing and rewriting. And I'm kind of finished. And so now it's funny with this book out in the world, like, now, it's just more about what other people think. Like my parts finished, pretty much. Yeah, now it's just up to other people to see what they think. But I'd love to know what you think I'd love to hear your thoughts, when you get a chance to look at it. You know, and my stories, I feel like they're very connected with yours, actually.
Mei Lai Swan 38:15
That's why I love these opportunities to drop in deeper and, and I really I love, I love what you do. And I really love how you offer, you know, of yourself into the world with such sincerity and with such humility, and it's really rare. So it's I'm also really honored to be part of your journey to some small.
Jivana Heyman 38:38
Thank you. I appreciate that. So sweet. Well, I love and admire you too. And I am very grateful for your time and for being here. And I'm sure all of our listeners have enjoyed hearing from you and some of your wisdom. And like I said, I'll add, we can add in the show notes, links to your trainings and your website so people can find out more about you and your amazing work. Thank you so much. Yeah,
Mei Lai Swan 39:01
and I heard you know, when you said it's like now it's up to what other people think about the book, what I hear is, you know, as we're sharing our stories is that I really hope that people are so inspired by your book, you know, to really dive into their own stories and journeys in a way that you that you have.
Jivana Heyman 39:21
Thank you and I actually like you're sharing your contribution to the book. And there's about 15 or 16 others in the book, I feel like that was the point is to show that we each have our journey, but there's a connection there. And I just wanted to say that you know, I think that's my hope the reader does find something that they can connect with and and resonate with, through my story and with yours and with the other contributors. And so, it's been fun to do this podcast as well and like have deeper conversations with each of you, you know and hear a little more than that one paragraph so you can share more about your journey and Yeah. So thank you. Thanks so much for that for being a part of it. Thanks, Jivana. All right, take care.
Mei Lai Swan 40:07
Jivana Heyman 40:11
Thanks so much for listening and joining the conversation. yoga is truly a revolutionary practice. Thanks for being here. If you haven't already, I would love for you to read my book, yoga revolution, building a practice of courage and compassion. It's available wherever books are sold. Also, you can check out my website JivanaHeyman.com. There's some free classes on there and a meditation and you can find out more about my upcoming trainings and other programs. Hope to see you next time. Thanks. Bye
Transcribed by https://otter.ai