Unknown Speaker 0:05
Hello and welcome. This is the yoga revolution podcast. My name is Jivana Heyman, my pronouns are he and him.
Unknown Speaker 0:15
This podcast is an exploration of how we can live yoga right now
Jivana Heyman 0:20
And how we can apply the yoga teachings in our lives. We'll discuss the intersection of yoga and social justice, as well as how to build a practice that supports our activism. All my guests are contributors to my new book, yoga revolution, building a practice of courage and compassion. Thanks so much for joining me. Let's get started.
Hi, everybody. Welcome to this episode of our podcast. I'm so excited today to have a special guest, Susana Barkataki is here. She's actually the first contributor to the book that I'm having as a guest on the podcast. And I just want to tell you a bit about her. Susanna is an Indian yoga practitioner in the Shankaracharya tradition, who supports practitioners to lead with equity, diversity and yogic values for growing thriving practices, and businesses with confidence. She is founder of ignite yoga and wellness Institute and runs 200 and 300 hour yoga teacher training programs. She's an ERYT 500 certified yoga therapist, and author of the amazing book "Embrace Yoga's Roots courageous ways to deepen your yoga practice".
She's just an amazing educator. And I love talking to her so much. Welcome, Susanna, thanks for being here.
Susanna Barkataki 1:47
Thank you for having me, too. But I'm excited for this conversation.
Jivana Heyman 1:52
Me too. And thanks so much for contributing to the book. I was just so excited to have your to have you be a part of this project. You know, as you know, it was the book is kind of a it's my story and everything. But I really tried to bring in a lot of voices. And I was so excited when you agreed to be a part of it. And I love what you shared. I wondered if we could start with that if you would be willing to share what you wrote in the book. Could you read that for us?
Susanna Barkataki 2:19
I would love to and I really appreciated when you reached out to me and asked me to share a story.
And so here's what I wrote. As someone raised within the yoga tradition, there is no distinction between yoga seva and social justice my ita, my paternal grandmother from Assam, Lakshmi Devi Barkataki served anyone who came by her doorstep, she embodies say that which means generous service. Whatever leads us towards unity is yoga, my jatai my father's elder sister, embodies care and action in the face of injustice. Whatever causes separation within ourselves or with others is not yoga. Yoga is something that I learned how to be not just do.
Unity isn't some idealistic dream that we can just wish into being skipping over the often divided reality that we live within isn't the solution. Pretending separation and suffering don't exist is not the fastest way to unity. This is why yoga naturally emerges in practice as a science of care, equity and justice. I aim to address the causes of separation, to practice yoga as a unity.
Jivana Heyman 3:45
So amazing. Thanks for sharing that I'm so excited that's in the book. And it's just a picture of you they're actually teaching. I don't know if people can see that. But there's an image in the book of you smiling. I think you're holding light on yoga, maybe teaching like you're always doing. So I was wondering if you could just share more about that. I mean, there's so many you make so many points in there. Actually, I kind of want to just start at the end, though, because you talk about practicing yoga as unity. And I think it's really beautiful the way you kind of threatened that idea in there. Because generally everyone defaults to that Oh, yoga is yoking together in unity, but in so many ways. It's not what we're doing, you know, but you've made it clear. I wonder if you could say more about that, like, how is it that you see yoga as unity beyond that kind of surface interpretation that we often hear?
Susanna Barkataki 4:47
Right? I mean, I just think about how there's so many ways, that actually the time times were causing suffering for others are when we're disconnected or hurting ourselves, or at least for myself, you know, when I'm feeling misunderstood or rejected or not belonging, you're not seen. That's when I create the conditions for those types of things to exist for others. And so when I think about yoga is unity, absolutely have to work or like care for attend the hurt and disconnected parts of myself as I'm doing that in the world. And so I do I really think of like, who I wrote about my Ida my jatai like, life was not easy for my grandmother's she was an orphan. And she had children very young, in her early teens. Yeah, and yet, those she was, in many ways, you know, struggling and suffering and hurting, she also cared for others. And part of her way of finding meaning or kind of purpose or connection that really was connected to the divine was connected to, to God and whatever name you know, or names, who is giving to that, that force. She was connecting herself to herself and herself to others through service. And so it can sound really grand, but it's also like the little moments of tending the moments of connection, the moaning moments of turning towards I think of my audience, you know, the the eldest daughter of my grandmother, Lakshmi Davey Barca tacky, so my, my aunt, who I called that type, but her name is Maya. And every time as a child growing up, you know, as an immigrant, I was an immigrant to the United States from England, and my aunt was who helped bring us here, she made us feel welcome. You know, even though we were from England, even though I was mixed, even though, you know, I was a kid, and then like a probably a punk teenager, I always felt the warmth and the, like, open heartedness. And the turning towards and, you know, once she told me, you know, your father, like, he does this, and that, you know, he's had different choices that I have around the family around traditions around, you know, but I love him, you know, and, and just that, like, acceptance of unity doesn't mean we have to be the same. But I grew up with this felt experience, you even when I wasn't able to receive it, this felt experience of yoga as unity within a living breathing practice of these, these matriarchs, these, you know, women and in my family.
Jivana Heyman 8:11
That's awesome. I love that what you just said, unity doesn't have to be the same that like, unity isn't the same as, like, oneness necessarily are all equal. It's more like, there's this, there's this connecting thread. And yet we have very different, like, diverse experiences reminds me of something I mentioned, the book actually is my teachers, teacher, Swami shivananda, used to talk about unity and diversity and seeing the unity and diversity is the goal of yoga, that you see that connecting Divine Essence beyond the diversity of the world and the diversity of nature. And it sounds like your family was doing that. Right. Like that's what your your aunt was able to do. She accepted your dad, right? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, she
Susanna Barkataki 8:54
said, so many, so many, you know, and, and because of that, it's like, I learned, on some level, the cellular experience of unity of acceptance, even while being different and feeling different and feeling separated. And so I also think, you know, unity in yoga doesn't mean we have to push away or reject the parts of us that aren't toll or that feel inadequate or that feel insecure have imposter syndrome. You know, I think because I know a lot of folks who listen and who read your book and hopefully will love it, you know, real teachers and yoga practitioners and and most of us including myself, I don't know about you, but I experienced so much insecurity so much imposter syndrome so much like, right,
Jivana Heyman 9:57
oh my gosh, yeah, I mean, I just started this podcast and I listened back to the first episode and I thought, What am I doing? Great. Right. But yeah, going yeah. So what's your advice about that?
Susanna Barkataki 10:11
Well, it's not even I mean, it's unity isn't doesn't exclude insecurity, right? or lack of wholeness. So like, when I look at myself or or even within my family, you know, it's not perfect, right? There are things that are not like my grandmother, my aunt are very warm, welcoming, but there's other things, you know, there's, there's every family is unique and has their dynamics. But it's more like, how can we tend to the parts than ourselves, just even by bringing awareness to the disconnection or the separation, or the judgment of insecurity, but not make that mean? We're not ready to do what we're doing. But like you said, just keep going, you know. And that's, I think, how we come back to actual unity is so much like, yoga for me is like feeling the lack or the division or the yoga, the not yoga, not connection, and then moving in the direction of connection anyway.
Jivana Heyman 11:19
Right. And you're saying, I think we're saying is that the way part of the way towards further connection is by accepting the difficult parts and the the ugly parts of ourselves are the part that we push away? I think that's Is that what you're saying? That it's like wholeness comes from not being like, perfect, and everything is good, but actually is full, more acceptance?
Susanna Barkataki 11:44
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And so much what I think my work is about because of experiencing some, you know, a lot of separation in my life, a lot of disconnection and racial violence. And you know, and so, my practice of yoga has been steeped in needing to not say, oh, we're all one, everything was wonderful, because that wasn't my lived experience at all. It was very different. And then I had to reconcile and make sense of a practice. It's all about unity, in a world that was so troubled, which I think now, you know, very few people have that illusion that we're post racial. You know, I think many more of us, wherever are positionality. Understand, there's like, discrimination. There's discrimination against queer folks, there's, you know, like gender discrimination, racial discrimination, I think we're, like the dominant society validates to those of us who've been on the margins. that gap, like what we experience is real, it doesn't have the solution, necessarily, but there's more validation.
Jivana Heyman 12:59
Right. Like you said, in your quote, you said, pretending separation and suffering don't exist is not the fastest way to unity. And it's interesting, because I think it's true that the ultimate goal of yoga is to reduce suffering, right. I mean, that's what the practice is really for. And yet, it's not like he's it is not through pretending and spiritual bypassing, which is something that I mean, I talked about in the book later. But it's interesting that it's coming up in our conversation right now. Because I think that is, in a way, it's a way of, it's almost like, we need to go back to the tradition to the ancient teachings and find that truth, because the way that Western Yoga has been is being taught is really with that kind of superficial, spiritual bypassing tone of oneness and good vibes only focus on the physical and performance. And I think the, the suffering in life, we think, oh, we should avoid that. And yoga, that's not the case. It's actually through processing, the difficult parts and the pain. That's how we address the suffering by speaking out when we see harm being done. That's how we practice yoga. Right? Yeah. Okay, so I have more questions for you. Yeah. You know, I wonder if you could talk about that about your work around cultural appropriation. I know everyone asks you that question, but I can't help but ask a little bit about that. It feels like connected to the stories you're telling about your family. This kind of, it feels like you were always speaking up for your ancestors and for your family, and for all of those who've been kind of disregarded or oppressed. Is that is that sure you think
Susanna Barkataki 14:57
you know, I do speak A lot about my family and and I think it's because it's an important part of why I'm here is to center to center the experiences of those who have been kind of left out and actually intentionally erased from what it means to practice yoga at all in the West. And so I do end up talking about our experiences, or my teachers experiences and, and I was really reflecting on the site, I think it's important to do in a way that other people can feel like they find a way in, or like a way to see their relationship to the practice. Or to the traditions and other people's experiences, like a way that's inviting, you know, some kind of like, just for example, right? If I meet someone just on the street, you know, or a coffee shop or something, not that we do that that much anymore, but outside, you know, and they're like, Oh, your yoga teacher? Yeah, I do yoga, too. It's not like, I'm going to say, you know, that, like, I love hot power yoga, and the sweat and workout I get, I'm not going to exert Wow, be like, Well, you know, but I might say, Oh, that's so great. Yes, Asana is amazing. And I really enjoy it too. You know, nowadays, I'm often doing restorative practices, or, you know, whatever. And there's so much more to yoga. Do you know about that? You know, have you heard about yoga ethics? Do you know about yoga as a as a way of being as a lifestyle and, and more like, exploring with curiosity, when I have time when I have patients when I have like, the spoons, essentially to do all that. And, and then. So that's kind of the role I see that I play in the yoga world is like, we've gotten here, PS, we got here because of colonial colonialism, white supremacy, you know, and like, Neo liberalism. And there's so much more, that's actually, you know, you talk about this in your book, it's like, this is a practice that can lead us to reducing personal suffering and suffering in the world. Maybe it's, you know, it's not a panacea, it's not gonna fix everything. But it can certainly help us on that path. And I am really passionate about about that. And so I don't get tired of talking about those things. So you can always ask me,
Jivana Heyman 17:45
okay, good. Yeah. I mean, what you just said, really connected with me, because I do think that was my main intention with this book is to try to connect people to the ways that their practice is both internal and external. And that there's, there's a lot of, I think there's a lot of confusion there about that around the relationship between your internal spiritual practice and your actions in the world. I wonder if you're any thoughts about that? Like, what is the connection like for you? Or is it the same?
Unknown Speaker 18:19
So you are you so the confusion that you're seeing? Can you explain it a little more? Yeah. Like, I think people don't see that their actions in the world are also their yoga practice. We think of spiritual practice as just the internal part. And often, you know, I think the story we hear about the tradition of yoga is mostly a monastic tradition, even though that's not the only one that there was. But today, most of us aren't monks. And so and yet, we're almost practicing in a way that's more monastic where we think, Oh, this is just an internal thing, where I'm just trying to find peace in myself. That's what I'm practicing for, without really making the connection between our actions, like the way the story of the Gita and about karma and service and Siva, like you mentioned in your contribution, just, I don't know, I feel like there's a lot of confusion or misunderstanding about relationship between our internal spiritual practice and our actions. Yeah, there really is. And I think that's connected so much to this idea of like an individual who can pull themselves up by their bootstraps and, you know, succeed in a capitalist frameworks and and when we No, that's not really how it works, you know, without a lot of privilege and luck and other things. But we've written that story on to the yoga narrative. And so Yoga is there to help you like not feel depressed or to you know, and I'm not saying this sincerely. It's like it's it's sold to us as this cure for anxiety or depression or sleeplessness or whatever. Like to get better.
Susanna Barkataki 20:15
like repairing the individual is more for an individual in relationship to a community, even the enunciates often were fed by their communities for decades, even, you know, their whole lives, because the understanding was that that renunciate was giving back, you know, through their teachings through their practice, to guiding other other practitioners to was giving back to the community. And so I kind of think about it, you know, for example, with a particular practice, like mudra, which is like the gesture, gestural practice of yoga. So, for example, if you know, like Jnan mudra, where you bring your thumb, so you folks can't see me, but you can bring your thumb and pointer finger together, if, if you can't do that movement, or you want to modify or have a different practice, you could bring a limb to another part of your body, and experience groundedness or a feeling of like, solidity in some way. So just offering options there. So with again, mudra, this is a mudra of focus on mudra. of connection
with the mind and the body. And is often used in meditation, which are, though, can be gross, gross, meaning like the physical body, you know, it can be subtle, you can hold them bitter in your mind. And it can be experiential, like the without even needing to do it in any kind of form. And so it's almost like we've gotten attached. Do you know, we said, like, the gross part, the physical part of yoga, is all of what Yoga is. And we just don't need to go around doing these shapes and doing these things, and we'll be good. But actually, there's so much more to it, there's the the experiential part, you know, of internalizing the experience without even needing to do anything with your body. So you don't have to move to experience the mudra of Jnan of focus at all.
And, and so because I don't know if you can hear my kiddo in the background, I think that's funny. He's
Jivana Heyman 22:41
a life of householder.
Susanna Barkataki 22:43
Yes, it is, right? It's like, and so for me, for example, I'll just, you know, be real with everyone because folks also might be in this is like, we got the call today, it's not my kid who has COVID but another kiddo in the camp has COVID. And so now he's home and not a camp. And so in that moment, okay, the external practice, caring for the situation, the internal practices, like how do I self regulate myself, and handle the thing where I'm feeling all sorts of things, that his experience is totally different and, and make this a growing and learning experience together? So there's so many ways to practice every opportunity, you know, whether we're partnered or parenting or work with our friends. That's an opportunity to practice yoga. Yeah, thanks for your that is like, yeah, your life experience a loss as you face the struggles that you've you've gone through, you know, is has been your practice has shaped your practice and then became your practice.
Jivana Heyman 23:53
Right. And that's why I wrote the book. I mean, I wanted to share that piece that I just feel like in contemporary practice is sometimes lost, that people still have this misunderstanding that Yoga is just happening inside of us, which is mostly true, but also with our actions. And I think you described it beautifully, like what's happening when you went to go get your son from camp and it's like, what you're doing something externally and the way you respond to the, to the camp counselors and to your son, but also you're internally also processing and regulating at the same time and what I tried to share in the book is that the regular practice, like you described with the mudra, like a practice of Asana, pranayama, meditation, the internal aspects of, of yoga can kind of prepare us and are essential for that self regulation so that when we move out into the world, we can do so more consciously. And through connection, you know, so that we don't always lash out at our partner when we're frustrated. Maybe we realize, Oh, wait, I'm just frustrated right now. It's not you. You know, like that kind of awareness. I tried to share in the book that you It's, it's that constant going inside and then going back out, you know, there's going in and out that I try to share in the book, this kind of dance that Yoga is for me of internal observation and self awareness and external action in a conscious way. Yeah. Yeah.
Susanna Barkataki 25:24
I wonder if Do you feel like people get that? I mean, do you feel like when you're teaching that your students understand that? You know, I do, I do, it takes a lot of, you know, it's kind of like, there's some philosopher, I need to look up who said this, he said, the light on slowly over the whole, you know, and I remember being in logic class, I had to take logic to get my BA in philosophy, and the light was not dawning, you know, understanding logic, it wasn't making sense, I was failing the class. And another teacher who taught a different kind of philosophy was like, Don't worry, you'll get there. And I just kept showing up. And eventually, I understood enough, I don't remember what I got maybe a C, or a B, I can't remember. But I passed logic. And I feel like it's that same process, sometimes. It's like, we'll think that we get it. And then we'll be in the middle of like, say, yoga, teacher training, or training and like, pushing ourselves and going really hard and feeling really inadequate before not finishing a project or not watching the videos or, you know, not like having enough accessible cues. And then like, it'll be like, Oh, right. This is practice to know. And so I get to sort of steward the experience of
Again, and again, and again, and again, because it actually is like, taking out one of my teachers talks about watering seeds, you know, it's like, that seed of self compassion, that seed of Ahimsa, that seed of non harm. I'm literally looking at in your book, like what he said, that's the heart of Ahimsa, non supporting oppressive systems is unethical, it's our job as yoga practitioners to speak up against suffering wherever we see it, right. Like, that's a seed that needs watering. The first time you spoke up, I'm sure, it was, like, terrifying, you know, and, and then you just kept doing it. And, and that seed got watered. And it was the same for me, it's probably the same for many of our students. And, and so living yoga, part of why this is so much fun to do with folks like you, you know, and the folks who have a notebook that you've interviewed or, and, and are talking to and had contribute, is because we water each other seeds. And then the students water our seeds, you know, and and we kind of go in this cycle of like a virtuous cycle of reaffirming a more whole, full heart and practice of yoga, and just living. Yeah, and you mentioned Thich Naht Hanh, and I've just, I quote him in the book a few times, I mentioned him a few times in the book, and I have a really beautiful poem by him.
Jivana Heyman 28:22
Call me by my true names, and if you know that one, but he, he is such an inspiration to me. And actually, I feel like what he shows in his work is an engaged spiritual practice, like engaged Buddhism, which he really he created. I feel like it's been lacking in the yoga world, at least until recently, I feel like you you're a part of, you know, there's a growing movement of social justice activists in the yoga community, who are you know, what I would consider practicing an engaged yoga, kind of like an engaged Buddhism of Thich Nhat Hanh. And I feel like, not only is it about awareness of social justice, and how that's part of our practice, and the external form, but I feel like it actually is also a nod to tradition and actually connects back to the truth of the teachings in a way. So I feel like, you know, sometimes when you kind of have an aha moment, I feel like to me the AHA is that practicing yoga and connecting to the truth of the price of the teachings and the history of yoga, makes me more of an activist makes me more of a
seeker for justice in the world. You know, I realized more and more that that's what I feel like there's a call in these teachings, like this ancient, I don't know, ancient call is that the word like echo that has been kind of ignored, and that people are finally hearing. And I feel like you're one of the loudest and most clear voices for that. And I'm just so grateful to you. And it makes sense that you're a student, one on one because I can feel that maybe maybe that's what I'm feeling to in your work. Yeah, I mean, Thich Naht Hanh Absolutely.
Susanna Barkataki 32:03
And he takes the teaching that was sort of put into this elite group of people in terms of access, and is sharing amongst anyone who wants to learn. And so I met him met tick, not Han, was like, Oh, yeah, you're this kind of practice Make sense? And so there is a way, you know, that tech that has revolutionized Buddhism for our time, or that, you know, Shankarji, my teacher is revolutionising yoga, in a context where some people don't like it, because they still want the practice to just be for the belief. And in a way, you can draw a parallel to us in the West, right, like
cisgender, bendy, flexible, privileged in all the ways, you know, access money, all those things. And, and I think you're right, like you this book, all of the things you describe in terms of your life experience, and the struggles with, like, the absolute horrors of the AIDS crisis, and the way that our world really let folks down, right like that. That is a revolution. I mean, I love that your book is called yoga revolution. It's like how to go through that and still love humanity enough to be like, Oh, I'm here for you. I'm here. Like, you weren't here for me. You know, but I'm here for you and your liberation. And that for me, too. And I just, like, I can't wait for people to read your book, because it's such a powerful story. And I know that, you know, you tell other people's stories, and you allow space for the stories in the text, you know, and many different voices emerge in your book, but I swear, like, I'm, I want to kind of uplift and celebrate your story and, and the story of what it is to continue to have an open heart and to do what you do and remain hopeful and present, despite so much loss.
Jivana Heyman 34:11
Wow. Thank you. I appreciate that. I, I hadn't thought of it that way. Exactly. But I think it's true that that's my practice, you know, is to continue to be to expose myself to the world over and over again. And I think that's yoga to me is like, knowing that you're going to actually talk about this in the book too. Like knowing that we're going to experience pain, we continue to love and let ourselves be loved. It's It's such a powerful practice of yoga to expose ourselves that way, you know, even though you know, you're going to hurt later. Or now hear me hurting now. Yeah, thanks for that. So sweet. Okay, I just had one more question for you. Because I don't know if you realize I quote you in the book much later. You're probably haven't found it near the end. gotten there? Yeah. So I was talking about creativity. And I quoted one of my favorite quotes from you, which is that you say, an alternative to cultural appropriation is creativity. And I talked about creativity means we're connecting for lifeforce and connecting to Spirit because I, you know, my background is in art and painting and drawing and, and I totally feel that like creativity is spirituality for me. You know, there's really not a separation there. And so when you said that I was a hot like, it was such an aha moment for me when I read that I think you're one of your many, many, many incredible posts on social media. By the way, if anyone listening is not following you on social media, they're missing out on a lot of brilliance and fun. And God, it's incredible, amazing. Seriously talk about creativity. You had it, you had a monkey face on social media The other day you had, like, you're talking about monkey mind, and you had yourself as a cartoon monkey talking is so funny. You're just cracking me up? I do sometimes, unfortunately. But, um, so yeah, I don't know if you could just speak about that at all, like, that connection that you made.
Susanna Barkataki 36:23
I? Yeah, I, I love this. Because, like, the alternative to cultural appropriation, if appropriate, and you know what, at the basic level, it's stealing, right? It's going into someone else's culture, someone else's house, someone else's turf, taking their thing, biting their style, and then rocking it like, it's your own. And it's not, why do we do that? I literally sat and was thinking like, why did you know I had a friend in high school who always wanted to, to, like wear the clothes she was wearing? Or have the cute shoes she had? Well, why? Because I felt like she was cool. And I wasn't right. It was like I lacked something. And so and that's a sort of superficial example. But it gets really deep and really heavy, you know, with with cultural appropriation. And so why is it that one culture goes and takes, or people from a dominant culture, go and take the cultural resources, the spiritual resources, the wisdom of another culture, and then like, act like it's there to do whatever they want with? Well, it's a it's a great gaping hole of like the void, you know, a lack of meaning a lack of purpose and insecurity. And so it doesn't actually make one more hole to steal to take away, what does make us more whole, is to explore inwards and say, Well, what is it that comes from my ground of being? What is it that I have to offer? What am I truly wanting to share with the world and create, you know, and that might mean like, going back into your family practices, exploring your ancestral group practices, you know, part of my family is, is from England and France, you know, and so that I like to say, you know, I'm not just oppressed, like, I also have a presser in me, so many of us do, and, and so when I'm doing these explorations, I'm thinking about parts of myself and exploring those parts of myself as well as like, how can I connect to the indigenous the pagan practices in France, in England? And what might it mean to come from owning and living and being in that creative, expansive, grounded place, which isn't to say, you know, we can't like cross pollinate our cultural experiences, of course, we can write, but coming from that place of like wholeness and centeredness and wellness. And then I also think about how creativity is part of basic sankhya philosophy, one of the six schools of Vedic knowledge, and the in the understanding those proofs are consciousness and property are pure creative power and property is, is that creative power that stirs the universe into expression. And we ourselves are able to embody our, our own lived like, what's the word? It's almost like eminence or emergence into who we most most truly are. as we explore our basic kind of inherent creative nature, that's part of what it means to embrace the truth and to fully practice is to explore that within with Then, what is your, you know, property? What is your true expression? And it doesn't have to be for money, right? Like, there are things I do. I'm a terrible, you're beautiful artists, you and I'm not a great artist, but I love to doodle and draw. Will I ever put that out publicly? No, because it's not for others. It's for my own creative expression, you know, nothing. We don't have to do everything and like, monetize it, either. It can be creativity, just for the sake of creating just for the sake of pure life force, nature consciousness moving through us.
Jivana Heyman 40:38
I love that because we talked about purusha as being that consciousness or divine essence. And in yoga, it seems like we're always trying to get into that place, but actually getting into the body like through Austin and also like this, your creativity getting into the, the energy of prakriti, that's like the, the other piece of the puzzle, right? It's its consciousness and its nature together. It's like God and creation, joined. I think creativity gives us that connected, embodied experience. To me, it makes me like when I'm drawing and I'm in the flow, it's just like being in meditation is like, there's really no difference there between the state of mind being in that present. Moment of awareness just being that's quite powerful.
Susanna Barkataki 41:24
Yeah, it really is.
Jivana Heyman 41:26
Thank you so much for that. Anything else you want to share? I just appreciate you so much. And this was such a great conversation. I'm so glad that you're part of this book. And I really recommend anyone who hasn't yet read your book that they get it. Hopefully they get my book too. But yeah.
Susanna Barkataki 41:47
Run book clubs. Yes. Let's, let's like extend this yoga revolution. That's what this is all about. I appreciate you so much to
Jivana Heyman 41:57
you, too. Thank you. Thanks so much for being here, Susanna, and we'll have links in our show notes to you and your work so people can find you there.
Unknown Speaker 42:05
You know, thanks so much for being here and being part of the book. Thank you. And yeah, thanks to everyone listening and meeting. Take this out, practice it, you know, let us know how it goes. We are creating a movement. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Susanna. Okay, bye.
Jivana Heyman 42:29
Thanks so much for listening and joining the conversation. Yoga is truly a revolutionary practice. Thanks for being here. If you haven't already, I would love for you to read my book, the yoga revolution, building a practice of courage and compassion. It's available wherever books are sold. Also, you can check out my website jivanaheyman.com. There's some pre classes on there and a meditation and you can find out more about my upcoming trainings and other programs. Hope to see you next time. Thanks. Bye.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai